Alice (Montgomerie) de Montgomery (abt. 1114 - abt. 1176)

Born about 1114 in Pembroke Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Descendants

Died about 1 Sep 1176 at about age 62 in Berkshire, England

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Warning: this profile needs a lot of work, and some of the information on it is poorly-sourced and suspect

Biography

Parents

There is no good evidence for who Alice's parents were.

Alice has previously been shown on WikiTree as daughter of Arnulph de Montgomery and Lafracoth O'Brien. There is no reliable source for this, and no firm evidence for any children of theirs. She is named as their daughter by Marlyn Lewis;^[1] a 1921 article by E Curtis says that this relationship is suggested in two secondary sources^{[2] [3]}, but indicated that there is no good evidence.^[4]

Birth

Alice de Montgomery was born circa 1105 at Pembroke Castle, Pembrokeshire, Wales. Her Memorial lists her birth at 1100 and her son, Maurice's. at 1150. Lewis lists 1150 as the birth of Gerald? See comments for details of birth estimate for Alice.^[5]

The Memorial for Alice de Montgomery shows her birth in 1100 and death on September 1, 1176. Her son shows birth in 1150. It is doubtful that she gave birth at 50. Her Husband birth was listed as 1108. I'm not sure what criteria was used to estimate birth at 1126. Possibly it was based upon her being 24 at her son's 1150 birth. Fuller-5853 13:01, 11 June 2017 (EDT)

Estimated Range of Birth

Known children's estimated ranges of birth are from 1138 to 1155.

• A 30 year range of mother's age at birth of a child is between 16 and 46.

• Mother's birth is estimated as after 1119 if youngest child was born when she was 16.
• Mother's birth is estimated as before 1109 if oldest child was born when she was 46.

• Conclusion: Alice was born between 1109 and 1119 or about 1114.

Marriage

Alice married Maurice FitzGerald, Lord of Lanstephan^[6], Lord of Maynooth.^[7]

Alice de Montgomery married Maurice FitzGerald, Lord of Lanstephen, Wales, son of Gerald of Windsor, Constable of Pembroke and Nesta verch Rhys of South Wales. Alice de Montgomery.^[1] Cork not only names her husband and parents but gives a few details about them.^[6]

Children

Alice and Maurice had issue. Her Memorial names five of nine children, however both Burke and Lewis show the same six but in different order and only four are on all three sources.^[5]

Her Memorial also claims that Alice had nine children four of which are unnamed. Thomas and Nesta are missing and William wasn't listed by either Burke or Lewis and neither were the other two unnamed children on the Memorial.

Other sources are also cited, however, Burke mentions only her husband and six children (in different order) without mentioning her name.^[1][8]

Death

The Memorial of Alice de Montgomery shows she died in 1176 and is buried at Abbey Grey Friars in Welford, Berkshire, England.^[5]

Research Notes

Family

Family:^[1]

Father: Arnulph Montgomery (c.1066-c.1119).

Mother: Lafracoth O'Brien b. c 1080

Husband: Maurice FitzGerald, Lord of Lanstephen, Wales (c.1100-1 Sep 1177)

Children per Lewis:

• Thomas FitzMaurice, Lord Connello d. c.1213
• Alexander FitzMaurice
• Maurice FitzMaurice
• Nesta FitzMaurice
• Walter FitzMaurice de Whyte
• Gerald FitzMaurice, 1st Baron Offaly (c.1150-15 Jan 1204)

Children per Burke:

1. Gerald Fitz Maurice ...
2. Thomas ...
3. Alexander.
4. Maurice.
5. Walter.
6. Nesta, w. to Harvey de Montmorenci ...

Children per Memorial:

1. William FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 1st Baron of Naas
2. Walter FitzMaurice de Whyte, I 5^[8] & 5^[1]
3. Alexander FitzMaurice FitzGerald 3^[8] & 2^[1]
4. Gerald FitzMaurice, 1st Lord of Offaly 1^[8] & 6^[1]
5. Robert Fitzgerald
6. & 4 others -1
7. & 4 others -2 Maurice 4^[8] & 3^[1]
8. & 4 others -3 Thomas 2^[8] & 1^[1]
9. & 4 others -4 Nesta, w. to Harvey de Montmorenci ... 6^[8] & 4^[1]

Where's the records for:

• William FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 1st Baron of Naas.
• Robert Fitzgerald
• The only one of the unnamed 4 others not identified.

Memorial on Find A Grave

Note: Data was unsourced and needs confirmation. Information is doubtful, for example, Alice would have been 50 when her son Maurice was born. Links to the WikiTree profiles for those listed as her siblings and children have intentionally been omitted until data is confirmed. Fuller-5853 13:55, 11 June 2017 (EDT)

Birth: 1100 in Pembroke, Pembrokeshire, Wales

Death: Sep. 1, 1176 in Welford, West Berkshire Unitary Authority, Berkshire, England

Father: Arnulph de Montgomery,^[6] Earl of Pembroke

Mother: Lafracoth ingen Muiredaig Ó Briain^[6]

Husband: Maurice FitzGerald,^[6] Lord of Lanstephan

Siblings: Philip Montgomery, Sir; N.N. de Montgomery; Maria Marrio Fitz Gerald de Carew; Adam De Montgomery and Robert de Montgomery

Husband: Maurice FitzGerald, Lord of Lanstephan

Children:

1. William FitzMaurice FitzGerald, 1st Baron of Naas;
2. Walter FitzMaurice de Whyte, I;^[8][1]
3. Alexander FitzMaurice FitzGerald;^[8][1]
4. Gerald FitzMaurice, 1st Lord of Offaly;^[8][1]
5. Robert Fitzgerald
6. and 4 others. NOTE: Burke and Lewis also list Thomas, Maurice and Nesta who are 3 of the 4 unnamed on Alices' Memorial.^[8][1]

LNAB G2G

Question: What should last names be for Montgomery Clan?

Answer: Very good question. Generally for this time period, and for the Clan, we use the spelling Montgomerie"

TIme period for profile discussed was 1155-1214. Alice passed away during 1176.

Personal Montgomerie Research

Until today my rough draft of my research had a "private" privacy level. It was changed to Public. For those interested it can be viewed at Fuller-5853 Montgomerie Research. Fuller-5853 20:49, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12 1.13} Lewis, Marlyn. Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins.
2. ↑ Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Series VI, Vol. XI (Hodges, Figgis & Co., Dublin, 1921) p. 123.
3. ↑ The Journal of the Historical and Archaeological Association of Ireland, Third Series, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1869) Pedigree of the Earls of Desmond
4. ↑ E Curtis. Murchertach O'Brien, High King of Ireland, and his Norman Son-in-law, Arnulf de Montgomery, circa 1100, in 'Journal of the Royal Society on Antiquaries of Ireland', Vol. 11 No. 2, 1921, pp. 116-124, Internet Archive
5. ↑ ^{5.0 5.1 5.2} Alice de Montgomery (1100–1 Sep 1176) on Find A Grave: Memorial #135786764 Created by: Linda Sibley Zimmerman; added 12 Sep 2014; accessed 24 July 2018. NOTE: Lists wife, 5 of 9 children ^{[citation needed]}, 4 siblings ^{[citation needed]} and links for spouse and 1 child, Maurice.
6. ↑ ^{6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4} Cork page 133 of downloadabel PDF: Maurice Fitzgerald of Castletown Castle (Old Castletown). Note: Transcription of quote was checked and verified by Fuller-5853 20:10, 24 July 2018 (UTC).
7. ↑ Journal of the County Kildare Archaeological Society and Surrounding Districts, Vol. IV (Edward Ponsonby, Dublin, 1905) The Barons of Offaly, Holders of Lea Castle.
8. ↑ ^{8.00 8.01 8.02 8.03 8.04 8.05 8.06 8.07 8.08 8.09 8.10} Burke:Vol. 1, Page 566 Lineage: Maurice FitzGerald

See Also:

• Burke, John. A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain (Henry Colburn, 1835) Vol 1 Digitized Book from the collection of University of Wisconsin - Madison by Google.

• Cork, Past & Present, a service of Cork City Libraries, Grand Parade, Cork, Ireland. From home page use tab, Places then sections: North Cork, then Grove White Notes then Volume II or Castle Keven to Clenor Parish links for downloadable PDFs choose pages 127 to 139. NOTE: Profile Alice Montgomery of WIndsor refers to this source as: page 133 Maurice Fitzgerald of Castletown Castle (Old Castletown).

• Isenburg; Europaische Stammtafeln. Vol. 3. (Author unknown.

• Lewis, Mr Marlin, Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins compiled by Mr. Marlan Lewis of Portland Oregon. Citing these sources:

• A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Commoners of Great Britain and Ireland, Vol. I, by John Burke, Esq.,. NOTE: Same as Burke source already used and only mentioned her husband and 6 children. Fuller-5853 00:08, 17 August 2017 (EDT) Footnote 1 on Lewis
• Unknown author, Europaische Stammtafeln by Isenburg, chart 640, Vol. 3. in unknown series (n.p.: n.pub., unknown publish date). NOTE: Last name on record is Montgomerie but website has Montgomery.

NOTE: Last name on record is Montgomerie but website has Montgomery. Fuller-5853 22:15, 12 October 2017 (EDT). Footnote 2 on Lewis

• Memorial citing Grayfriars Church, Welford, West Berkshire Unitary Authority, Berkshire, England.