Parents of Reffell and Plummer

Question

Hello, This concerns Reffell-187 and Plummer-526. In FindMyPast there is a record of their marriage in 1819 in St George Hanover Square.. They are both "of this parish". I cannot find any other records for them. For Harriot Plummer I have no candidates. James Reffell could be Reffell-241 bapt 1785 Cobham parents Richard and Jane, Reffell-119 bapt 1791 Dorking parents Joseph and Sarah or Reffell-252 bapt 1796 Frimley parents Thomas and Elizabeth. Thanks in advance for any help.

Answer 1

There was also a James Reffell chr 1784 in Kent (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58184f28e93790ec8b23fafa), but maybe you think that's too far away.

What is your interest in this couple, are they relatives or is it part of a one-name study and you're trying to put the jigsaw of every Reffell together?  And what is the reason for the 1760 birth dates, is it just a guess or is there some reason to suspect they were that old when they married?

I can't see any sign they had children from baptism and civil registration records - there were Ruffell children with a Plummer mother in the birth registrations for the first decade or so of civil registration, but the father's name in census wasn't James.

Comments

James 1784, waterman, married Mary Ann Wagner in 1809. she died in 1833. so dont think he is husband of Harriot Plummer.

James 1791 is a relative. trying to link together Reffell records. my ancestors are found recorded in every conceivable spelling, often had the same first names,  and they moved around. Reffell and Ruffell both probably started off as Rufhoulde in England. one of my ancestors is definitely related to a Thomas Ruffell from around Bradley in Hampshire who is also definitely related to a Robert Mann. The most recent found ancestral relative of mine has the surname Anstadt is from Germany and became Onstatt in the USA. i am looking for links between these surnames.the Ruffell Mann connection will probably be around Bradley. the Reffell Ruffell connection is probably in the 1300s or 1400s and probably not in England. the name is Germanic in origin  Rafwald (raffon = tear off + waldan = govern) and it is a byname like Smith and Baker.

---

So what about the 1760 dates, what are those from?  And if James is a relative, you must have some other record that links him to someone else in your family tree.  The more information you can share about him, the better chance someone can help you effectively.

---

There are a couple of wills listed on the National Archives website that you might be able to match up with James Ruffells though neither looks like Harriet's husband:

1) https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D91752 this chap who was a ship owner who lived in Marylebone and died in 1844 or 1845 and

2) https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D240412 this chap who was a corn chandler and lived in Chelsea, had a wife Mary and died around 1830.

There was a Harriet Riffell or Raffell who died in Worthing district in 1844 (see also https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J8L7-14Q).  She was 55, so a plausible age to have married in 1819.  I can't see her in the 1841 on FamilySearch.  There was also a Harriet Raphael who died in 1832 in Kent (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JDCT-9JM), unfortunately no age given.

---

the 1760 was from guesswork 2012. i did not realize it was still there. since i do not know i have guessed about 1800 now.thanks for mentioning it so i became aware of it.
James bapt 18 Sep 1791 at Dorking, died 1 June 1850 Knysna, Cape, South Africa with daughter Matilda Grimes Reffell who married William Shannon 27 Jun 1853 Capetown South Africa is a brother of my greatgreatgrandfather Joseph bapt 16 Oct 1789 Dorking married to Elizabeth Fowler  23 Nov 1814 Christ Church Southwark died 13 Sep 1848 Horton near Heathrow

i do not know if James 1785 son of Richard and Jane is a relative.he has a brother William guessed birth 1783. Richard's father is Marmaduke who married Mary Peacock 10 July 1737 and was buried 16 Jan 1774 St Andrews Cobham.Mary was buried 8 Jan 1763 Stoke d'Abernon..Marmaduke then married Elizabeth Kent 2 Aug 1763 Cobham. Baptisms (all at Cobham, burials at St Andrews Cobham) etc of his and Mary's children are Mary 15 Mar 1737, William 19 Aug 1739 buried 19 Sep 1767  John 16 Feb 1740 ,Marmaduke 17 July 1743-27 Aug 1743, Marmaduke 16 Dec 1744, James 25 Jan 1746.they moved to Stoke d'Abernon and bapt Daniel 3 Jan 1749 ,Ann 8 Jul 1753 married Richard Arthur 4 Jan 1781 Cobham, Caroline 10 Feb 1751, Richard 6 Apr 1755 and George 25 May 1760. Marmaduke and Elizabeth bapt 27 Dec 1764 Thomas who married Mary Jones 30 Nov 1790 Cobham and at Cobham 14 Jun 1767 Fanny. One of my relatives John Reffell born about 1748 married Ann Burchatt 8 Oct 1776 in Cobham.so i wonder if there is a connection to the Reffell families in Cobham and Stoke d'Abernon.

i do not know if James bapt 24 April 1796 at Frimley, son of Thomas and Elizabeth is related.

The only reason i guess birthyears is that otherwise i cannot make profiles that contain the data in the records i have found. Also many of the profiles are from a gedcom uploaded in 2012 the paf of which no longer exists.

---

thanks.

---

thanks. it says Harriet Raffell and could be her in 1844. consequently i did a wildcard search for her in the 1841 census, there i found  in Worthing, Harriot and James Riffell both born 1787-1791 not born in Sussex and Matilda Riffell born 1822-1826 not born in Sussex.that is probably them. i did a wildcard search for Matilda but found no baptism/birth record.

---

reply to Corinne Morris:the 1760 was from guesswork 2012. i did not realize it was still there. since i do not know i have guessed about 1800 now.thanks for mentioning it so i became aware of it.
James bapt 18 Sep 1791 at Dorking, died 1 June 1850 Knysna, Cape, South Africa with daughter Matilda Grimes Reffell who married William Shannon 27 Jun 1853 Capetown South Africa is a brother of my greatgreatgrandfather Joseph bapt 16 Oct 1789 Dorking married to Elizabeth Fowler  23 Nov 1814 Christ Church Southwark died 13 Sep 1848 Horton near Heathrow

Answer 2

The witness names might contain a clue - if anyone can read them. The name containing Greville on the far right is the curate.

Comments

The witness names look like Martha Tatton or Tutton, and C Stanley.

---

thanks for the image. it definitely says James Reffell and Harriot Plummer and both of this parish and the witness names Tatton/Tutton and Stanley. the problem is how do i find records for James Reffell or Harriot Plummer living in the parish of St George Hanover Square around 1819? i do not have people connected to the witnesses names Tatton/Tutton and Stanley or anything similar. it mentions banns. is there a banns record?