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John Richmond (abt. 1594 - 1664)

John Richmond
Born about in Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire, Englandmap
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 70 in Taunton, Plymouth Colonymap
Profile last modified | Created 25 Sep 2010
This page has been accessed 12,275 times.
The Puritan Great Migration.
John Richmond migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). (See The Directory, by R. C. Anderson, p. 283)
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

Contents

Disputed Associations

Parentage unknown. John Richmond's parentage is unknown or unproven. His father is often shown as Henry Richmond (Richmond-48), but recent research about Henry suggests he was only about eight years older than John. Quite separately, Henry had no known wife, Elizabeth (Christian) Richmond, said born 1572, was once associated as John's mother. These parent-child relationships were disputed by WikiTree collaborators and severed in 2022. See also Research Notes.

Wife's name unknown. The name of John Richmond's wife is unknown or unproven. She is seen as "Elizabeth Nicholas" on various user-contributed sites, including FindAGrave and FamilySearch FamilyTree. Her association as the wife of PGM John Richmond was severed in 2018 following research by T. Stanton showing "Elizabeth Nicholas [was] married [to] a John Richmond alias Webb who died in 1641 and was buried at Wiltshire, England."

Once-Disputed Origins

Joshua Bailey Richmond’s 1897 Richmond family history[1] states that John was born son of Henry Richmond alias Webb at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire. This view continues to survive and is widely seen in internet genealogies however it is now viewed as a theory based upon a probable misunderstanding of available evidence long ago.

More recent genealogical research and a fresh examination of available evidence gathered in the work of R. Walton[2] shows that John was probably born at Amesbury, Wiltshire, a so-called Brinkworth Richmond. John’s step brother, Oliffe Richmond, owned the Manor House at Ashton Keynes (built in 1450, today Cove House) and John would have been a regular visitor there perhaps giving rise to family lore that he was of Ashton Keynes. A 1736 letter from John’s nephew Oliffe, son of his step-brother Oliffe, to a cousin Sylvester reads in part, “Dear Cousin, …It is agreed by all that our ancestors first settled at Rodborne, Wilts; that two branches lived at Chedderton, in Lyddiard Treygoze Parish, Wilts. and Brinkworth, Wilts."[3] It is also seen that John was baptized Cricklade in 1597 [4] and that the original record had been seen. There is no reason to dispute that author but there are currently no known records for Cricklade parish baptisms in 1597.

There is nothing to show that Henry Richmond alias Webb and Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, Wilts are different individuals as is often assumed. They are now believed the same individual simply referred to differently in different sources. See Research Notes for more from cousin Oliffe Richmond’s letter cited above.

Biography

John Richmond was born about 1593 (about age 70 at the time of his death),[5] 1594[1][4] or 1597[6] at Amesbury in Wiltshire, England. His father was Henry Richmond (alias Webb) of Christian Malford, Wiltshire. It is uncertain if Henry had four of five wives. John’s nephew Oliffe Richmond, writing in 1736, gives his mother as the first of the first two unknown wives of Henry which bore him both John and Henry (son). Some sources give his mother as Elizabeth, the last (fourth or fifth) wife of Henry but this appears to be without even secondary documentation.

Records show that John Richmond was likely in the shipping business between Bristol, England and Maine. A ship's passenger list in Bristol shows John Richmond of Amesbury in Wiltshire sailing for "Virginia" in 1635. [7] Cutter cites court records from 1636 regarding a shipping dispute from 1635.[6]

He was one of the original purchasers of Taunton, Massachusetts in 1638.[4][7][6] He returned to England to join Cromwell's Roundheads and so was not on the list of those eligible for military service in Taunton in 1643[4], leaving his daughters in Massachusetts. His two sons were in England but came to America in the 1650s. Walton and Cutter state that he attained the rank of Colonel while in England about 1643-55 (estimated from a lack of records in the Colonies during this period) and he also appears to have killed his brother Henry, it is believed accidentally during military engagement.[6][2]

He is next recorded in Rhode Island 1655 [4] and eventually he returned to Taunton and lived the remainder of his life with his daughter Sarah.

He died March 20, 1664 in Taunton, Plymouth Colony.[6][1] Joshua Bailey Richmond in his family history nor Clarence Torrey were able to determine the name of John's wife.

It is claimed he is buried at Old Taunton Burial Ground.

Will and Estate

John's will was dated 14 December 1663. An abstract of which follows:

To eldest son John Richmond; son in law William Paule, and Mary his wife, and to their children. To younger son Edward and his son Edward; to son in law Edward Rew, and Sarah, his wife; son John’s son Thomas. Witnesses, Joseph Wilbore, Shadrach Wilbore.[8][9]

Probate inventory totaled 10 pounds. 11 shillings. 09d. [10]

Family

Children,[11][6][1]

  1. John Richmond, born England, about 1627
  2. Edward Richmond, born England, about 1632
  3. Sarah Richmond, born Taunton, Massachusetts, about 1638
  4. Mary Richmond, born Taunton, Massachusetts, about 1639

Note: John’s Will as well as the cited sources list only four children. All other purported children are listed undocumented absent primary source or verifiable secondary source documentation.

Research Notes

See also Richmond Conundrum References.

Now severed father. WikiTree reported John1 Richmond of Taunton as the son of Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, based largely on assumptions Joshua Bailey Richmond made in 1897, especially his work with various early (say 1630s) English and New England records. None of the early records have been proven to be about the immigrant, and none specify a relationship to Henry Richmond of Christian Malford.

A somewhat more recent family tome by Henry I. Richmond, Richmond Family Records (1933), updated information about the father's presumed paternal and maternal lineages. Based on the interpretation of a single document--his now maternal grandfather's 1586 will(*)--Henry's estimated date of birth shifted forward by more than a decade. With this change, Henry's son John would seem unlikely John1 Richmond of Taunton, who was born before 1600. (Somewhat akin to his father's estimated birth date, John1 Richmond's birth is also based on a single document--his age at death.)

(*)Henry's elder brother was named in the 1586 will of his maternal grandfather, John Cooke, but Henry and those believed his younger brothers were not mentioned.

Cousin Oliffe’s letter. Cousin Oliffe’s letter above[3] continues, “…Henry, our grandfather, had four wives and as I have been informed twenty-five children, twelve of whom grew up to be men and women. Children by first wife: John and Henry (The Amesbury Branch) now descending from John who killed his brother during the civil wars and cost our grandfather so much money to save his life that his estate was sold or irrecoverably mortgaged. Children by second wife: Peter, father to George and William. Children by third wife: Silvester, Oliffe my father, James died at Campden in Gloucester County and left children, Francis died unmarried. Children by fourth wife: Jane, Edward, Mary died unmarried, Elizabeth married but died without offspring. Thomasine married in Ashton Keynes and left children. "John and Henry our grandfather's sons were officers of distinction in the civil wars, one in the king's army and the other in Cromwell's, and our grandfather's home was often plundered by both armies, the king's party saying he had a son in Cromwell's party and Cromwell's party that he had a son in the king's. Your affectionate though unknown kinsman, "Oliffe Richmond."

Children seen but not documented.

Katherine Richmond - not a documented child
Amy Richmond - not a documented child
Samuel Richmond - is his grandson
Henry Richmond - not documented and citation is erroneous

Misc. Note. About Richmond, John John was an officer in the English Civil War and reportedly killed his brother Henry in battle. Henry was in the King`s forces. John pursued commercial interests on the west coast of Ireland and settled in Taunton, a colony of Plymouth. He emigrated in 1637. He acquired a large estate & was commissioner for Newport, Rhode Island. (Alan Rufus, 1st Duke of Richmond built his castle in Yorkshire & d. w/o issue-Then came the Richmonds of Wiltshire?) William Richmond of Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire m. in 1430 Alice-daughter & heiress of Thomas Webb of Draycott. There is also research that says that John Richmond was a sea captain who had a reputation in Maine where there is an island named after him. He was a founder of the town of Taunton, Ma.

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 Richmond, Joshua Bailey. Richmond Family 1594-1896 and Pre-American Ancestors 1040-1594, (W. B. Clarke & Co, Park St, Boston, Mass, 1897) On Archive.org
  2. 2.0 2.1 Walton, R., The Richmonds in America (archived website, no longer online, citing The Richmond Family News-Journal, vol. 1 no. 3, July 1972 and information provided by R. Walton and J. Jordan); The Richmond Family News-Journal 1 (3) is accessible via the FamilySearch Catalog.
  3. 3.0 3.1 Joshua Bailey Richmond, (Boston : The compiler, 1897), p xiii; digital images, InternetArchive.
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 Emery, Samuel Hopkins. "History of Taunton Massachusetts", Syracuse, NY, D. Mason & Co., 1893; it is believed this citation originates with Savage
  5. John Richmond 1663/4 estate inventory, "Massachusetts, Plymouth County, Probate Records, 1633-1967"; images, FamilySearch, 15, (Plymouth Colony records, wills, 1633-1686, vols. 1-4, Wills, vols. 1-4, 1633-1686, FHL film 567794, DGS 007051111, image 313 of 616).
  6. 6.0 6.1 6.2 6.3 6.4 6.5 Cutter, Wm. R., Genealogical and personal memoirs relating to the families of Boston and eastern Massachusetts, Lewis Pub., New York, 1908, Vol II:784
  7. 7.0 7.1 Wilbour, Benjamin Franklin. Little Compton Families: From records compiled by Benjamin Franklin Wilbour (Baltimore, Maryland: Clearfield Company: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1997) Fifth edition, Vol. II, p. 511
  8. John Richmond will transcript; web content, "barbpretz," Rootsweb, citing Williams, Chase-Wigglesworth ..., see p. 357-58, which cites The Richmond Family p. 2, transcription there without further reference. Separate abstracts in (1) Justin Winsor, "Abstracts of the Earliest Wills in the Probate Office, Plymouth," New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 7 (1853):180; digital images, Hathi Trust and (2) George Ernest Bowman, "Plymouth Colony Wills and Inventories," The Mayflower Descendant 18 (1916):248-9 (Will of John Richmond, Sr.," in "Abstracts of the Records in Volume III"); digital images, Hathi Trust.
  9. John Richmond 1663 will, 1663/4 inventory and 1664 (1671) probate, "Massachusetts, Plymouth County, Probate Records, 1633-1967"; images, FamilySearch, 14-15 and FamilySearch, 29, (Plymouth Colony records, wills, 1633-1686, vols. 1-4, Wills, vols. 1-4, 1633-1686, FHL film 567794, DGS 007051111, image 313 and 320 of 616); John Richmond probate indexed as 3 (1): 14, 15, 20 in "Plymouth Colony records, wills, 1633-1686, vols. 1-4"; digital images, FamilySearch (Plymouth Colony records, wills, inventories and estates, 1633-1686, Index to Plymouth Colony wills, inventories and estates, FHL film 982261 Item 22, DGS 007705455, image 707 of 747).
  10. Bristol County (Mass.) Probate Records 1690-1881; Author: Bristol County (Massachusetts). Register of Probate; Probate Place: Bristol, Massachusetts
  11. Robert S. Wakefield, "Additions and Corrections to Austin's Genealogical Dictionary of Rhode Island," The American Genealogist, 54 (1978):96-99, at 96; digital images by subscriptions, AmericanAncestors.
See Also:
Y DNA Haplogroup inferred from descedants: I1a

Acknowledgements

This profile was re-sourced and rewritten December 2018 by T Stanton as part of the PGM project. Origins of the profile had been removed prior long before but could be accessed through Changes tab.

  • David Kerkkonen, firsthand knowledge. Click the Changes tab for the details of edits by David and others.




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Comments: 46

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Have updated the disputed associations section with comments about both his linked father and mother.

John's association with the linked mother should be severed.

WikiTree can opt to sever John's relationship with his associated father, or leave it in place as uncertain. As described in "Uncertain father," the birth dates reported for the two men are based on only two documents, one of which is surely subject to a degree of interpretation. --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
Gene, doesn't look like this ever made it to the top of the maintenance category for the needed changes. Since it has now been a year, time to simply make the changes to reflect the evidence. I believe the mother must be detached (with notations to text). What is your current feeling about the father? Detach with notations or leave attached as Uncertain?
posted by T Stanton
Thanks, T. I'm going to send a further note about this to Steve Hunt, who did so much of the heavy lifting. At least IMHO, Steve has the most complete catalog of records about these oft confused families. --GeneJ
posted by GeneJ X
Hi Gene and thanks for contacting me. Essentially we have no primary sources that identify the parents of John Richmond of Taunton, MA.

The best evidence available at this time is that John Richmond of Taunton was born c 1593 and that Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, Wiltshire, England, was born c 1588, suggesting they were not father and son.

That they were related in some way is possible given the commonality of the name Silvester in both families and the family legend of a connection with Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire.

posted by Steve Hunt
Thanks, Steve.

I'm going to update the disputed sections on the target profiles, then post back so we can snip, snip, ship.--Gene

posted by GeneJ X
Thanks again, T.

Have severed the parental links. If you think our notes on this should be improved, please edit away.--Gene

posted by GeneJ X
If the attached father is correct, he was only six years old when son John Richmond was born. I've added maintenance category for a relationship check.

Jen

posted by Jen (Stevens) Hutton
Hi Jen,

I am going to add a section, "Uncertain Parentage." It will touch on "maybe, maybe not" nature of what Steve Hunt refers to as the "dating evidence." The estimate of John's date of birth is based on his age at death--those tend to be a little variable as we see frequently. The father's estimated date of birth is based on an interpretation of a relative's will (possibly more variable).

posted by GeneJ X
Are there objections to attaching John's linked children to his now-wife "Unknown Unknown?"--Gene
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
MS 6831 was presumably by the Hugh Thomas who died 1720 hence his research captured in the MS is relatively contemporary with the time period for John Richmond alias Webb and Elizabeth Philipps.

[1]

posted by Steve Hunt
Tracked down the handwritten record of John's will, inventory and probate record in the unindexed FamilySearch collection. See

"Massachusetts, Plymouth County, Probate Records, 1633-1967"; images, FamilySearch, 14-15 and FamilySearch, 29, (Plymouth Colony records, wills, 1633-1686, vols. 1-4, Wills, vols. 1-4, 1633-1686, FHL film 567794, DGS 007051111, image 313 and 320 of 616).

posted by GeneJ X
Awesome work Gene. So we need to sever Henry and Katherine as children, correct?
posted by Brad Stauf
Thank you, Brad. Yes. I thought they had been severed earlier.--Gene
posted by GeneJ X
T-rex Stanton posted on their profiles back in 2019 that they would be severed so I figured...might as well
posted by Brad Stauf
This is a proposal to sever Elizabeth (Philipps) Richmond (abt.1600-) as the linked wife of John Richmond.

While I may have over looked something, account after account report the name, even the given name, of his wife is unknown.

If a particular reliable source has been overlooked, please post so that we may collaborate about this. Specifically, we're looking for historical records and the supporting analysis.

Thank you for supporting WikiTree.--Gene.

Edited to add: An alternative to detaching her is to change her name to Unknown Unknown, This would preserve the profile as a place where the various claims about her identity could be entered as research notes.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Gene I support the change to U/U. I posted a more detailed (i.e. I pontificated a lot) comment on her profile.
posted by Brad Stauf
Hi Brad,

I have added the appropriate research note to profile of the "other" John Richmond alias Webb (Richmond-4909).

Believe we are ready for someone with super-powers to update this wife to Unknown Unknown.

Thanks for all your work on this. --Gene

Edited to identify the correct ID of the other man of the same name.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
H I Richmond cited Harl. 6831 f. 130 as his source for the marriage of Elizabeth Philipps to John Richmond alias Webb of Rodbourne Cheney. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Webb-7013 for citations etc.

I could not find the MS in the list of the Harleian manuscripts at the British Museum, presumably it is one of those many manuscripts held at the College of Arms.

Given that there is evidence an Elizabeth Philipps did exist and did marry a Richmond alias Webb then perhaps she should be reconnected to John Richmond alias Webb.

regards, Steve

posted by Steve Hunt
edited by Steve Hunt
Steve, I deleted my earlier comment after I realized you've been deeper into this than I realized and it seems you have a good understanding of the Webb/Richmond saga.

Re: Harleian mss #6831, I put some comments on Richmond-4909 also, it looks like that is (or should be) at the British Library, just not digitized. The 1808 catalog describes it pretty well and also says that some of that work by Hugh Thomas is in #6823 and 6870 (also not digitized). Any chance you live near the British Library reading room? We might need to forge a letter of introduction for you but I'm sure we can manage that ;) Here's the catalog link on archive.org https://archive.org/details/CatalogueOfTheHarleianManuscripts3/page/n429/mode/2up?

posted by Brad Stauf
I was at the British Library two weeks ago. I take a trip there every few months.
posted by Steve Hunt
Steve, This may cause me to lose sleep tonight, I am so envious.--Gene
posted by GeneJ X
The Richmond Family News-Journal. Vol. 1, no. 3 (July 1972)

is accessible via family search https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/66243-the-richmond-family-news-journal-v-1-no-3-july-1972?viewer=1&offset=2#page=6&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=

However, it does not have much to say about John Richmond.

posted by Steve Hunt
Does Robert Charles Anderson include an entry for John Richmond in the Great Migration Directory?
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
yes. Do you want the references?

Edited to add the references: TAG 54:96-99, PCR 8:186, MD 18:248-9, Chase-Wigglesworth 357-58

posted by S (Hill) Willson
edited by S (Hill) Willson
TYTYT. Might I have the page number and the abbreviated works consulted? I can craft a reference from that.

Edited to add:

  • Robert S. Wakefield, "Additions and Corrections to Austin's Genealogical Dictionary of Rhode Island, The Richmond Family." The American Genealogist 54 (1978):96-99' digital images by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  • Nathaniel B. Shurtleff, ed., Records of the colony of New Plymouth … (Boston : Press of W. White, 1855-61), 12 vols. in 10; 8:186; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  • "Will of John Richmond, Sr.," in George Ernest Bowman, "Plymouth Colony Wills and Inventories," The Mayflower Descendant 18 (1916):248-9; digital images, Hathi Trust; cites p. 14-15
  • Alicia Crane Wiliams, Chase-Wigglesworth genealogy … (Baltimore : Gateway Press, 1990), 357-8 (The Richmond Line); digitali images, Hathi Trust.
posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
Gene, I see that another member has made a substantial change to this profile in the last day absent any discussion prior to that change. It's in the Changes Log.

We went from this conclusion during a rework of the profile a couple of years ago: There is nothing to show that Henry Richmond alias Webb and Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, Wilts are different individuals as is often assumed. They are now believed the same individual simply referred to differently in different sources.

To this conclusion: There were clearly two different men named Henry Richmond or Richmond alias Webb. One was born c 1556 son of Edmund and was of Wiltshire then Kintbury, Berkshire, and the other was born c 1587, son of John, and was of Christian Malford, Wiltshire.

It's been too long since I dug into all of this for it to be fresh in my mind but I think going back to the two different men theory is the old theory which has been dropped right back in using older sources.

Should we send all of this over to G2G for a rehash?

PGM Leaders should consider reversing that change since it was made sans discussion.

posted by T Stanton
Thank you.

I'm looking at those changes right now. I saw your note in the acknowledgements section earlier, and went on the hunt ...

G2G might be a good sounding place for this issue. I have not researched this John Richmond, but certainly can give the G2G a shot if it's not something you have time for at present. --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
I restored the biography with the comment, "changes made without discussion."

I still need to review this, though, to make sure other changes were not introduced. --Gene

posted by GeneJ X
Gene, just wondered if after reviewing this you had thoughts on the one vs two men. It seems one of the PMs on the father profile may be attempting to again make the case for two but the changes have been so numerous and the direction is uncertain.
posted by T Stanton
Thanks T.,

Henry's profile is long. I haven't sorted enough of it to be clear where it is headed, but it is obvious that Steve is working hard on it.

I'd like to see a list of the specific historical records that are being relied upon by the different authors in order to reach the conflicting conclusions.

There is a chance we just don't have enough historical documentation to make a call on this. There are surely cases where that circumstance has led to an over reliance on assumptions left for years and years without proof.

I have set up a free space page, "Richmond Conundrum References." I haven't added any details yet, but will work away at it.

posted by GeneJ X
Yes I have been working on Henry Richmond alias Webb (or the two Henrys) and after a bit of a break I intend to come back to it sometime in the next few days after I have wrapped up some other work. The aim is and has been to examine the evidence as to whether there were two Henrys or not.
posted by Steve Hunt
Thanks for all your work on the Richmond profiles, Steve. It is a worthy quest.--Gene
posted by GeneJ X
It is on page 283, references shown above. It says his origins are unknown, and arrived in 1639, Taunton, Newport.
posted by S (Hill) Willson
Most interesting. I descend from John's son Edward on my father's side, from John Jr. on my mother's - my parents were ninth cousins. Male Richmonds are alive today in both lines. The two Richmond lines (including me) have the same Y chromosome, now called I-M253, centered in Scandinavia, makes sense since the name is Norman French.
posted by Robert Richmond
I have a scan of a document published by Old Colony Historical Society, 66 Church Green, Taunton, MA 02780, entitled "RICHMONDTOWN" which purports to be the history of the area of Taunton known by that name and includes a biography of John Richmond, born in England in 1594 and who emigrated from Ashton Keynes to Taunton about 1635. I would be pleased to email this to anyone interested.
posted by Charlie Richmond
Charlie, thanks for your offer, I would be interested. I will send you a p/m on wikitree so you can get my email address.
posted by Brad Stauf
I will be pleased to do this, Brad.
posted by Charlie Richmond
In US New England marriages prior to 1700, there is a John Richmond m 1627.
posted by Patty Freeman
Beryl, see the Once Disputed Origins statement and the Research Notes. The surname use in this family is complex and has led to many genealogical errors. We believe most of those errors have been corrected on this profile, based on recent research.
posted by T Stanton
Wiltshire parish register are available on ancestry.com

I searched page by page in Ashton Keynes, Amesbury. I only saw: Edwardus Webb marriage 14 January 1600 at Ashton-Keynes to Anna Carter. Their children baptised there: Jana (female) 29 Sep 1601, Henricus 7 Dec 1603, Edwardus 1 Nov 1604, Margery 29 April 1606. Marriage at: (by subscription) https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61187/45582_1831109331_0834-00023?pid=362322

posted by Beryl Meehan
Richmond Webb-3 and Richmond-47 appear to represent the same person because: Richmond is correct (Richmond_Webb) is not supported and not a good usage on Wikitree.
posted by Anne B
That seems to be source 1 already on this profile?
posted by Chris Hoyt
Erroneous undocumented wife detached. Notification to incorrect/undocumented children still attached that will be detached absent documentation, merge initiated for duplicate profiles of son John Richmond. One of these may be fictional person rather than profile with bad data. Father and Mother [uncertain] profiles to be reworked.
posted by T Stanton
Continuing from below. If Elizabeth Nicholas Richmond is his wife she would in all probability have been named in his Will written in 1663. The Elizabeth Nicholas Richmond attached as wife is said to have died 1664.
posted by T Stanton
The rework of this profile to remove conflicting information and consolidate sources raises a large question. Elizabeth Nicholas Richmond is attached as the wife. There are no records known which name the wife of John Richmond. The profile for Elizabeth has no documentation of her arrival (although we know the wife of John does arrive as two children are born in the colonies) and no documentation of her death and burial. She is not named in his Will however she is said to have died 1664 (he did in March 1664).

The wife's profile says she married John Richmond alias Webb who died 1641, England. That would reopen the current belief that the John Richmond of this profile is the son of Henry Richmond alias Webb and Henry Richmond of Christian Malford are the same person.

posted by T Stanton

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