| John Richmond migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). (See The Directory, by R. C. Anderson, p. 283) Join: Puritan Great Migration Project Discuss: pgm |
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Parentage unknown. John Richmond's parentage is unknown or unproven. His father is often shown as Henry Richmond (Richmond-48), but recent research about Henry suggests he was only about eight years older than John. Quite separately, Henry had no known wife, Elizabeth (Christian) Richmond, said born 1572, was once associated as John's mother. These parent-child relationships were disputed by WikiTree collaborators and severed in 2022. See also Research Notes.
Wife's name unknown. The name of John Richmond's wife is unknown or unproven. She is seen as "Elizabeth Nicholas" on various user-contributed sites, including FindAGrave and FamilySearch FamilyTree. Her association as the wife of PGM John Richmond was severed in 2018 following research by T. Stanton showing "Elizabeth Nicholas [was] married [to] a John Richmond alias Webb who died in 1641 and was buried at Wiltshire, England."
Joshua Bailey Richmond’s 1897 Richmond family history[1] states that John was born son of Henry Richmond alias Webb at Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire. This view continues to survive and is widely seen in internet genealogies however it is now viewed as a theory based upon a probable misunderstanding of available evidence long ago.
More recent genealogical research and a fresh examination of available evidence gathered in the work of R. Walton[2] shows that John was probably born at Amesbury, Wiltshire, a so-called Brinkworth Richmond. John’s step brother, Oliffe Richmond, owned the Manor House at Ashton Keynes (built in 1450, today Cove House) and John would have been a regular visitor there perhaps giving rise to family lore that he was of Ashton Keynes. A 1736 letter from John’s nephew Oliffe, son of his step-brother Oliffe, to a cousin Sylvester reads in part, “Dear Cousin, …It is agreed by all that our ancestors first settled at Rodborne, Wilts; that two branches lived at Chedderton, in Lyddiard Treygoze Parish, Wilts. and Brinkworth, Wilts."[3] It is also seen that John was baptized Cricklade in 1597 [4] and that the original record had been seen. There is no reason to dispute that author but there are currently no known records for Cricklade parish baptisms in 1597.
There is nothing to show that Henry Richmond alias Webb and Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, Wilts are different individuals as is often assumed. They are now believed the same individual simply referred to differently in different sources. See Research Notes for more from cousin Oliffe Richmond’s letter cited above.
John Richmond was born about 1593 (about age 70 at the time of his death),[5] 1594[1][4] or 1597[6] at Amesbury in Wiltshire, England. His father was Henry Richmond (alias Webb) of Christian Malford, Wiltshire. It is uncertain if Henry had four of five wives. John’s nephew Oliffe Richmond, writing in 1736, gives his mother as the first of the first two unknown wives of Henry which bore him both John and Henry (son). Some sources give his mother as Elizabeth, the last (fourth or fifth) wife of Henry but this appears to be without even secondary documentation.
Records show that John Richmond was likely in the shipping business between Bristol, England and Maine. A ship's passenger list in Bristol shows John Richmond of Amesbury in Wiltshire sailing for "Virginia" in 1635. [7] Cutter cites court records from 1636 regarding a shipping dispute from 1635.[6]
He was one of the original purchasers of Taunton, Massachusetts in 1638.[4][7][6] He returned to England to join Cromwell's Roundheads and so was not on the list of those eligible for military service in Taunton in 1643[4], leaving his daughters in Massachusetts. His two sons were in England but came to America in the 1650s. Walton and Cutter state that he attained the rank of Colonel while in England about 1643-55 (estimated from a lack of records in the Colonies during this period) and he also appears to have killed his brother Henry, it is believed accidentally during military engagement.[6][2]
He is next recorded in Rhode Island 1655 [4] and eventually he returned to Taunton and lived the remainder of his life with his daughter Sarah.
He died March 20, 1664 in Taunton, Plymouth Colony.[6][1] Joshua Bailey Richmond in his family history nor Clarence Torrey were able to determine the name of John's wife.
It is claimed he is buried at Old Taunton Burial Ground.
John's will was dated 14 December 1663. An abstract of which follows:
To eldest son John Richmond; son in law William Paule, and Mary his wife, and to their children. To younger son Edward and his son Edward; to son in law Edward Rew, and Sarah, his wife; son John’s son Thomas. Witnesses, Joseph Wilbore, Shadrach Wilbore.[8][9]
Probate inventory totaled 10 pounds. 11 shillings. 09d. [10]
Note: John’s Will as well as the cited sources list only four children. All other purported children are listed undocumented absent primary source or verifiable secondary source documentation.
See also Richmond Conundrum References.
Now severed father. WikiTree reported John1 Richmond of Taunton as the son of Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, based largely on assumptions Joshua Bailey Richmond made in 1897, especially his work with various early (say 1630s) English and New England records. None of the early records have been proven to be about the immigrant, and none specify a relationship to Henry Richmond of Christian Malford.
A somewhat more recent family tome by Henry I. Richmond, Richmond Family Records (1933), updated information about the father's presumed paternal and maternal lineages. Based on the interpretation of a single document--his now maternal grandfather's 1586 will(*)--Henry's estimated date of birth shifted forward by more than a decade. With this change, Henry's son John would seem unlikely John1 Richmond of Taunton, who was born before 1600. (Somewhat akin to his father's estimated birth date, John1 Richmond's birth is also based on a single document--his age at death.)
(*)Henry's elder brother was named in the 1586 will of his maternal grandfather, John Cooke, but Henry and those believed his younger brothers were not mentioned.
Cousin Oliffe’s letter. Cousin Oliffe’s letter above[3] continues, “…Henry, our grandfather, had four wives and as I have been informed twenty-five children, twelve of whom grew up to be men and women. Children by first wife: John and Henry (The Amesbury Branch) now descending from John who killed his brother during the civil wars and cost our grandfather so much money to save his life that his estate was sold or irrecoverably mortgaged. Children by second wife: Peter, father to George and William. Children by third wife: Silvester, Oliffe my father, James died at Campden in Gloucester County and left children, Francis died unmarried. Children by fourth wife: Jane, Edward, Mary died unmarried, Elizabeth married but died without offspring. Thomasine married in Ashton Keynes and left children. "John and Henry our grandfather's sons were officers of distinction in the civil wars, one in the king's army and the other in Cromwell's, and our grandfather's home was often plundered by both armies, the king's party saying he had a son in Cromwell's party and Cromwell's party that he had a son in the king's. Your affectionate though unknown kinsman, "Oliffe Richmond."
Children seen but not documented.
Misc. Note. About Richmond, John John was an officer in the English Civil War and reportedly killed his brother Henry in battle. Henry was in the King`s forces. John pursued commercial interests on the west coast of Ireland and settled in Taunton, a colony of Plymouth. He emigrated in 1637. He acquired a large estate & was commissioner for Newport, Rhode Island. (Alan Rufus, 1st Duke of Richmond built his castle in Yorkshire & d. w/o issue-Then came the Richmonds of Wiltshire?) William Richmond of Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire m. in 1430 Alice-daughter & heiress of Thomas Webb of Draycott. There is also research that says that John Richmond was a sea captain who had a reputation in Maine where there is an island named after him. He was a founder of the town of Taunton, Ma.
This profile was re-sourced and rewritten December 2018 by T Stanton as part of the PGM project. Origins of the profile had been removed prior long before but could be accessed through Changes tab.
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John's association with the linked mother should be severed.
WikiTree can opt to sever John's relationship with his associated father, or leave it in place as uncertain. As described in "Uncertain father," the birth dates reported for the two men are based on only two documents, one of which is surely subject to a degree of interpretation. --Gene
The best evidence available at this time is that John Richmond of Taunton was born c 1593 and that Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, Wiltshire, England, was born c 1588, suggesting they were not father and son.
That they were related in some way is possible given the commonality of the name Silvester in both families and the family legend of a connection with Ashton Keynes, Wiltshire.
I'm going to update the disputed sections on the target profiles, then post back so we can snip, snip, ship.--Gene
Have severed the parental links. If you think our notes on this should be improved, please edit away.--Gene
Jen
I am going to add a section, "Uncertain Parentage." It will touch on "maybe, maybe not" nature of what Steve Hunt refers to as the "dating evidence." The estimate of John's date of birth is based on his age at death--those tend to be a little variable as we see frequently. The father's estimated date of birth is based on an interpretation of a relative's will (possibly more variable).
edited by GeneJ X
[1]
"Massachusetts, Plymouth County, Probate Records, 1633-1967"; images, FamilySearch, 14-15 and FamilySearch, 29, (Plymouth Colony records, wills, 1633-1686, vols. 1-4, Wills, vols. 1-4, 1633-1686, FHL film 567794, DGS 007051111, image 313 and 320 of 616).
While I may have over looked something, account after account report the name, even the given name, of his wife is unknown.
If a particular reliable source has been overlooked, please post so that we may collaborate about this. Specifically, we're looking for historical records and the supporting analysis.
Thank you for supporting WikiTree.--Gene.
Edited to add: An alternative to detaching her is to change her name to Unknown Unknown, This would preserve the profile as a place where the various claims about her identity could be entered as research notes.
edited by GeneJ X
I have added the appropriate research note to profile of the "other" John Richmond alias Webb (Richmond-4909).
Believe we are ready for someone with super-powers to update this wife to Unknown Unknown.
Thanks for all your work on this. --Gene
Edited to identify the correct ID of the other man of the same name.
edited by GeneJ X
I could not find the MS in the list of the Harleian manuscripts at the British Museum, presumably it is one of those many manuscripts held at the College of Arms.
Given that there is evidence an Elizabeth Philipps did exist and did marry a Richmond alias Webb then perhaps she should be reconnected to John Richmond alias Webb.
regards, Steve
edited by Steve Hunt
Re: Harleian mss #6831, I put some comments on Richmond-4909 also, it looks like that is (or should be) at the British Library, just not digitized. The 1808 catalog describes it pretty well and also says that some of that work by Hugh Thomas is in #6823 and 6870 (also not digitized). Any chance you live near the British Library reading room? We might need to forge a letter of introduction for you but I'm sure we can manage that ;) Here's the catalog link on archive.org https://archive.org/details/CatalogueOfTheHarleianManuscripts3/page/n429/mode/2up?
is accessible via family search https://www.familysearch.org/library/books/records/item/66243-the-richmond-family-news-journal-v-1-no-3-july-1972?viewer=1&offset=2#page=6&viewer=picture&o=&n=0&q=
However, it does not have much to say about John Richmond.
edited by GeneJ X
Edited to add the references: TAG 54:96-99, PCR 8:186, MD 18:248-9, Chase-Wigglesworth 357-58
edited by S (Hill) Willson
Edited to add:
edited by GeneJ X
We went from this conclusion during a rework of the profile a couple of years ago: There is nothing to show that Henry Richmond alias Webb and Henry Richmond of Christian Malford, Wilts are different individuals as is often assumed. They are now believed the same individual simply referred to differently in different sources.
To this conclusion: There were clearly two different men named Henry Richmond or Richmond alias Webb. One was born c 1556 son of Edmund and was of Wiltshire then Kintbury, Berkshire, and the other was born c 1587, son of John, and was of Christian Malford, Wiltshire.
It's been too long since I dug into all of this for it to be fresh in my mind but I think going back to the two different men theory is the old theory which has been dropped right back in using older sources.
Should we send all of this over to G2G for a rehash?
PGM Leaders should consider reversing that change since it was made sans discussion.
I'm looking at those changes right now. I saw your note in the acknowledgements section earlier, and went on the hunt ...
G2G might be a good sounding place for this issue. I have not researched this John Richmond, but certainly can give the G2G a shot if it's not something you have time for at present. --Gene
I still need to review this, though, to make sure other changes were not introduced. --Gene
Henry's profile is long. I haven't sorted enough of it to be clear where it is headed, but it is obvious that Steve is working hard on it.
I'd like to see a list of the specific historical records that are being relied upon by the different authors in order to reach the conflicting conclusions.
There is a chance we just don't have enough historical documentation to make a call on this. There are surely cases where that circumstance has led to an over reliance on assumptions left for years and years without proof.
I have set up a free space page, "Richmond Conundrum References." I haven't added any details yet, but will work away at it.
I searched page by page in Ashton Keynes, Amesbury. I only saw: Edwardus Webb marriage 14 January 1600 at Ashton-Keynes to Anna Carter. Their children baptised there: Jana (female) 29 Sep 1601, Henricus 7 Dec 1603, Edwardus 1 Nov 1604, Margery 29 April 1606. Marriage at: (by subscription) https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/61187/45582_1831109331_0834-00023?pid=362322
The wife's profile says she married John Richmond alias Webb who died 1641, England. That would reopen the current belief that the John Richmond of this profile is the son of Henry Richmond alias Webb and Henry Richmond of Christian Malford are the same person.