Magna Carta Trail Pending
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Father: John Lyttelton, Esq.[1] b. c 1499, d. 17 May 1532
Mother: Elizabeth Talbot b. c 1501, d. b 19 Oct 1542
Roger Littleton, Esq. was born circa 1528 at of Groveley, King's Norton, Worcestershire, England; He was the 5th son.[2]
He married Elizabeth Stanley, daughter of John Stanley, Esq., Lord West Bromwich and Cecily Freebody, circa 1548.[3]
They had 4 sons (George, Humphrey, Francis, & John) and 4 daughters (Amphillis, wife of John Cox; Bridget, wife of Henry James, Gent; Anne, wife of William Paget; & Alice, wife of William Gower).[4]
Roger Littleton, Esq. died before 11 January 1589.[5]
Children by Elizabeth Stanley b. c 1520
George
Humphrey
Francis
John
Amphillis, wife of John Cox
Bridget, wife of Henry James, Gent
Anne, wife of William Paget
Alice, wife of William Gower
Research Notes
References to 'Robert Littleton' (now removed, pending further research), could have originated from the entry for "Robart Roger Littleton 4 sonne of Groverley = Elizabeth, da. of . . . . Stanley, of West Bromwich" in Phillimore, W., ed. The visitation of Worcester, 1569, London: Harleian Society, 1888. page 94. However, the rest appeared to have been copied from the biography attached to a 'FindAGrave' memorial, apparently based on a blog that may have conflated details of more than one person and looks unreliable:
a "PDF file called "HESS/NICKSONFAMILY HISTORY: THE MAGNA CARTA, Part 2" Our British Ancestors THE MAGNA CARTA, Part 2"
"Robert, his wife and parents are mentioned in the book: "The Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants" on page 335."
Info from Richardson (directly, not via Lewis):
Magna Carta Ancestry (2011), volume III, pages 461-465 RUDYARD (Lewis cite is to III:463): p 463 entry is for RUDYARD 13 - for Roger Lyttelton, Esq. of Groveley, m Elizabeth (or Isabel) Stanley, daughter of John Stanley, Esq. & Cecily, dau. and heiress of William Freebody. Their children: 4 sons/4 daughters. RUDYARD 12, also p 463, has his Roger's parents: Elizabeth Talbott m John Lyttelton (or Littleton), Esq. - John born c1499 "(aged 8 in 1507)"
Magna Carta Ancestry (2011) - Lewis cite to IV:363 - is for WOLSELEY 10 (pp 362-363), entry for George Stanley, Esq. & Eleanor Sutton. Their son John m Cecily Freebody (10.i.) and their daughter was Elizabeth (or Isabel) Stanley who married "Roger Lyttelton, Esq. of Groveley (in King's Norton), Worcestershire" (10.i.a.). They were ancestors of Thomas Rudyard (footnote 228, p 363).
Royal Ancestry - Lewis cite to volume IV, page 504 - is RUDYARD; page 505 is RUDYARD 11, Anne (or Agnes) Paston "married between 1492 and 1503 Gilbert Talbot... born about 1479." RUDYARD 12, p 506, is for Elizabeth Talbot m John Lyttelton (or Littleton). RUDYARD 13, p 507, is for Roger Lyttelton, Esq., m Elizabeth (or Isabel) Stanley. Roger is "of Groveleyy (in King's Norton), Worcestershire, 5th son." They had four sons (George, Humphrey, Francis, John) and four daughters (Amphillis/m John Cox, Bridget, Anne/m William Paget, Alice/m William Gower). Roger died before his brother John wrote his will, 11 January 1588/9. Daughter Bridget m Henry James, Gent (RUDYARD 14, p 507).
Sources/info from Robin Wood's comment:
Butler, A., ed. The visitation of Worcestershire 1634 [London: Harleian Society Publications, 1938], p. 62 [lines 7-9], pp. 133-34 [lines 5-7].
Grazebrook, H. S. The heraldry of Worcester: being a roll of the arms borne by the several noble, knightly, and gentle families, which have had property or residence in that county, from the earliest period to the present time; with genealogical notes, collected from the heralds' visitations, ancient manuscripts, heraldic dictionaries, church monuments, personal seals, and other trustworthy sources [London: J. R. Smith, 1873], v. 1, pp. 312, 362 [lines 7-10], v. 2, p. 562 [lines 5-7].
Jeayes, I. Descriptive catalogue of the charters & muniments of the Lyttelton family [London: Chas. J. Clark, 1893], pp. xv, xvi, 107-08 (see also [1]) [lines 6-8]. '
Phillimore, W., ed. The visitation of the county of Worcester made in the year 1569 [London: Harleian Society, 1888]. page 94 (page 103 of 205): John Littleton married Elizabeth, daughter of Gilbert Talbott; their son: "Robart Roger Littleton 4 sonne of Groverley = Elizabeth, da. of . . . . Stanley, of West Bromwich " - also lists their children in italics; pp 133-34 is Talbott pedigree (to his mother; he's not on those pages).
Roberts, G. The royal descents of 600 immigrants to the American colonies or the United States : who were themselves notable or left descendants notable in American history [Baltimore: Genealogical Pub. Co., 2004], p. 223 [lines 1-12].1999], pp. 32, 190 [lines 1-2, 6]
Sources
↑ Lewis, citing Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. III, p. 463.
↑ Lewis, citing Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 616.
↑ Lewis, citing Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, 2nd Edition, Vol. IV, p. 363.
↑ Lewis, citing Douglas Richardson, Plantagenet Ancestry, p. 773
↑ Lewis, citing Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, Vol. IV, p. 504.
Needs Development: This profile was just put under management of the Magna Carta Project and needs development against the project's checklist to bring it up to current project standards. ~ Thiessen-117 22:33, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Needs Source Check: This profile was just merged with another - this profile's source was Lewis's database & the other's was FindAGrave. (See the project's Reliable Sources page.) ~ Noland-165 23:44, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
See Base Camp for more information about identified Magna Carta trails and their status. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".
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The above biography (still) contains the unverified birth date of 'abt 1511' apparently based on the 'FInd A Grave' source.
That alleged birth date seems to have originated in the "PDF file called "HESS/NICKSONFAMILY HISTORY: THE MAGNA CARTA, Part 2" Our British Ancestors THE MAGNA CARTA, Part 2" which is only a blog. Material from this blog has been quoted in various online genealogy sites as if it were a reliable source and also suggesting that Roger (Robert?) was the eldest son. There is considerably more evidence, including from 'HIstory of Parliament Online' that Sir John Lyttelton (1519-90) was the 1st son. http://www.histparl.ac.uk/volume/1509-1558/member/lyttelton-john-1519-90.
Lewis, in 'Royal Ancestry' also makes Roger the fifth son, so his birth date was probably much later and most likely several years after brother John's birth in 1519.
Thanks, Robert. As you will have seen, the Magna Carta Project has yet to turn to overhauling this profile - there is a long queue of profiles needing attention by the Project. If you or anyone else wants to make well-sourced corrections or improvements to the profile in the meantime, great!
I have 'in the meantime' removed the potentially unreliable references to 'Robert Littleton', pending further research.
The use of the alternative name Robert might have originated in the entry for "Robart Roger Littleton 4 sonne of Groverley = Elizabeth, da. of . . . . Stanley, of West Bromwich" from The visitation of Worcester, 1569, (not always reliable in itself) although the rest did appear to have been lifted from the FindAGrave 'source' based on the Hess/Nickson blog which, possibly, conflates the details of two (or more) individuals.
Robin - Please do improve the profile if you have time. Otherwise the Magna Carta Project - which has just become a co-manager - will sort out dates when the profile is reviewed, unless someone else does so first.
that was me - since we had consensus on what the LNAB should be & the merge had received default approval, I wanted to get it merged the way we'd agreed but I didn't have time to do research. I left 1519 in the datafield and 1511 & 1528 in the text & added the Needs Source Check maintenance category. The given name is also a problem.
I'm back from my attempted stay-cation and will be editing this profile. I don't see that anyone added a source to support given name or birth year. If you have something that does, please add it! (and thanks :D)
regarding references i have the following unchecked references as a note in mycomputer notes at home.
They all need checking and I do not promise any success but perhaps worth a look
Butler, A., ed. The visitation of Worcestershire 1634 [London: Harleian Society Publications, 1938], p. 62 [lines 7-9], pp. 133-34 [lines 5-7].
Grazebrook, H. S. The heraldry of Worcester: being a roll of the arms borne by the several noble, knightly, and gentle families, which have had property or residence in that county, from the earliest period to the present time; with genealogical notes, collected from the heralds' visitations, ancient manuscripts, heraldic dictionaries, church monuments, personal seals, and other trustworthy sources [London: J. R. Smith, 1873], v. 1, pp. 312, 362 [lines 7-10], v. 2, p. 562 [lines 5-7].
Jeayes, I. Descriptive catalogue of the charters & muniments of the Lyttelton family [London: Chas. J. Clark, 1893], pp. xv, xvi, 107-08 (see also [1]) [lines 6-8].
'
Phillimore, W., ed. The visitation of the county of Worcester made in the year 1569 [London: Harleian Society, 1888], pp. 94, 133-34.Online at: http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Worcestershire/visitations/index.html [lines 6-9].
Roberts, G. The royal descents of 600 immigrants to the American colonies or the United States : who were themselves notable or left descendants notable in American history [Baltimore: Genealogical Pub. Co., 2004], p. 223 [lines 1-12].1999], pp. 32, 190 [lines 1-2, 6]
State papers for the reign of Elizabeth use all three spellings for the family, and all three for his brother John. Littleton is - just - the most common spelling in them. So this probably does not matter too much. I would stick, at least for now, with what is on this profile following Traci Thiessen's additions of other last names.
This profile is in a Richardson-documented trail between Gateway Ancestor Thomas Rudyard and Magna Carta surety baron Saher de Quincy (MCA III:461-465 RUDYARD) that needs development by the Magna Carta Project. If there are no objections, I will soon be adding the project as co-manager of this profile and will add a project box and project section to the biography. This profile still needs to be developed against the project's checklist. Thanks!
Littleton-29 and Littleton-22 appear to represent the same person because: maybe the information from the unsourced profile should be dumped and this merge then carried out.
These appear to be duplicates or very close.. These were set as unmerged matches in 2013. They have not been looked at since. Further information may have become available since then for this merge to be completed. If not reset as unmerged but preferably merge or reject. Another option is to start the merge process remove the unmerged match altogether leaving them without any connection. this may encourage further research and a successful merge in the future.
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That alleged birth date seems to have originated in the "PDF file called "HESS/NICKSONFAMILY HISTORY: THE MAGNA CARTA, Part 2" Our British Ancestors THE MAGNA CARTA, Part 2" which is only a blog. Material from this blog has been quoted in various online genealogy sites as if it were a reliable source and also suggesting that Roger (Robert?) was the eldest son. There is considerably more evidence, including from 'HIstory of Parliament Online' that Sir John Lyttelton (1519-90) was the 1st son. http://www.histparl.ac.uk/volume/1509-1558/member/lyttelton-john-1519-90. Lewis, in 'Royal Ancestry' also makes Roger the fifth son, so his birth date was probably much later and most likely several years after brother John's birth in 1519.
edited by Michael Cayley
The use of the alternative name Robert might have originated in the entry for "Robart Roger Littleton 4 sonne of Groverley = Elizabeth, da. of . . . . Stanley, of West Bromwich" from The visitation of Worcester, 1569, (not always reliable in itself) although the rest did appear to have been lifted from the FindAGrave 'source' based on the Hess/Nickson blog which, possibly, conflates the details of two (or more) individuals.
They all need checking and I do not promise any success but perhaps worth a look
Butler, A., ed. The visitation of Worcestershire 1634 [London: Harleian Society Publications, 1938], p. 62 [lines 7-9], pp. 133-34 [lines 5-7].
Grazebrook, H. S. The heraldry of Worcester: being a roll of the arms borne by the several noble, knightly, and gentle families, which have had property or residence in that county, from the earliest period to the present time; with genealogical notes, collected from the heralds' visitations, ancient manuscripts, heraldic dictionaries, church monuments, personal seals, and other trustworthy sources [London: J. R. Smith, 1873], v. 1, pp. 312, 362 [lines 7-10], v. 2, p. 562 [lines 5-7].
Jeayes, I. Descriptive catalogue of the charters & muniments of the Lyttelton family [London: Chas. J. Clark, 1893], pp. xv, xvi, 107-08 (see also [1]) [lines 6-8]. ' Phillimore, W., ed. The visitation of the county of Worcester made in the year 1569 [London: Harleian Society, 1888], pp. 94, 133-34.Online at: http://www.uk-genealogy.org.uk/england/Worcestershire/visitations/index.html [lines 6-9].
Roberts, G. The royal descents of 600 immigrants to the American colonies or the United States : who were themselves notable or left descendants notable in American history [Baltimore: Genealogical Pub. Co., 2004], p. 223 [lines 1-12].1999], pp. 32, 190 [lines 1-2, 6]
Richardson (vol. IV, p 506 - thanks Bettye!) has "Lyttelton (or Littleton)".
So... Retain Littleton-22 or create a Lyttelton?
edited by Michael Cayley
These appear to be duplicates or very close.. These were set as unmerged matches in 2013. They have not been looked at since. Further information may have become available since then for this merge to be completed. If not reset as unmerged but preferably merge or reject. Another option is to start the merge process remove the unmerged match altogether leaving them without any connection. this may encourage further research and a successful merge in the future.