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Richard (Ingraham) Ingram (abt. 1600 - 1683)

Richard Ingram formerly Ingraham
Born about in Englandmap [uncertain]
Son of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of — married 4 Apr 1628 (to 16 Sep 1668) in Barrowby, Lincolnshire, Englandmap
Husband of — married 10 Dec 1668 in Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
Descendants descendants
Father of , , , , and
Died at about age 83 in Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
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Profile last modified | Created 14 Sep 2010
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The Puritan Great Migration.
Richard (Ingraham) Ingram migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640).
Join: Puritan Great Migration Project
Discuss: pgm

Contents

Disputed Origins

Richard's parents are UNKNOWN. There is no documentation to support any of the following origins:

  • son of Jane Mallory and Arthur Ingram, esq.
  • son of Jane Mallory, daughter of Sir William Mallory and wife of Thomas Lascelles.
  • son of Sir John Mallory's two daughters, Jane (d. infant or young) or Jane II (bur. Rippon).
  • son of Richard Ingraham, b 1577 Fishtoft, Lincolnshire, England, d August 1683 Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts or 1652 Barrowby, Lincolnshire, England.

Biography

Richard Ingraham (aka Ingram) of Rehoboth and Northampton, Massachusetts was probably born between 1595 and 1605, almost certainly in England. His origins, parents, birth place and birth date are unknown. That the Richard Ingraham who first appeared in Rehoboth in 1643 is the same as the Richard Ingraham who settled in Northampton in 1668 has long been assumed, but there are no records which directly prove this.
The earliest record of Richard Ingraham in New England is when he was granted land in the first land division in Rehoboth in 1643.[1][2] Richard is sometimes said to have first settled in that part of Salem now known as Marblehead prior to his appearance in Rehoboth - there is no evidence that this is true. He appears in the land list of Rehoboth in 1645, and in 1647 he was granted additional salt marsh land by the town of Rehoboth. He rarely appears in the records thereafter, and little else is known of his time in Rehoboth. He was surveyor of highways in 1655. In 1668 he signed a petition against import taxes. Richard, in 1673, contributed to a fund in support of Harvard College.[citation needed] He was listed as freeman at Northampton on 8 February 1678.[3]
Between 1668 and 1683 a Richard Ingraham occurs in the records of Northampton, Massachusetts. He has been assumed to be the same as Richard of Rehoboth, though no land records, vital records, court records, wills, etc. that prove this to be true. The 1683 will of Richard Ingraham of Northampton names only his wife Joan and a "son-in-law" Calleb Pumry. Caleb Pumry had married a daughter of Joan by a previous marriage.
Of his children, Richard Ingraham is often assigned seven children; however, only two of these can be said to be proven. The land records of Rehoboth include William Ingraham owning an island of salt meadow that had been given him "by the Towne to his ffather, Richard Ingraham in lue of his Lot of Salt Marsh." Later in 1706, William Ingraham conveyed land "to Obadiah Ingraham, son to Jarratt Ingraham my Brother." Thus, William and Jarrett are proven sons of Richard Ingraham.[1] Elizabeth and Joan Ingraham married in Rehoboth in 1647 and 1651 respectively, so there are good reasons to believe they are daughters of Richard Ingraham of Rehoboth. Some accounts also make Henry Ingraham of Boston, and John Ingraham of Hadley to be sons of Richard Ingraham; however, there appears to be no records which prove or even suggest this to be true.[4] Abigail, wife of Samuel Cheesbrough, Joshua Holmes, and James Avery, is often said to be a daughter of Richard Ingraham; however, her LNAB is not even known to be Ingraham, there are no records to connect her to Richard Ingraham, and she has no known connection to Rehoboth.[5]
Richard Ingraham died 7 August 1683 in Northamptonshire.[6] He left a will naming only his wife Joan and a son-in-law Caleb Pumry, who had married a daughter of Joan's by a previous marriage. He named none of his own children, which is why there is some doubt as to whether or not Richard of Rehoboth and Richard of Northampton are the same person.

Marriages

Married: 1st - Elizabeth Unknown about 1625 (based on the birth of first child which itself is an estimate). Some secondary sources say they married on 4 Apr 1628, however there are no primary records to support this date.[7]
Married: 2nd - Joan Rockwell, widow of Jeffery Baker of Windsor, Connecticut, on 11 December 1668 in Northampton.[8][9]
Children of Richard Ingraham and his first wife:
  1. Elizabeth Ingraham. Born say 1626 (based on marriage in 1647). She married Richard Bullock on 4 August 1647 in Rehoboth.[10] Elizabeth died 7 January 1659/60.[11]
  2. Joanna Ingraham. Born say 1630 (based on marriage in 1651). She married George Robinson on 18 June 1651 in Rehoboth.[12] Joanna died 26 July 1699 in Rehoboth[13]
  3. William Ingraham. Born about 1632 (based on his marriage in 1656). He married Mary Bairstow on 14 May 1656 in Boston.[14] William died between 1 May 1721 and 15 July 1721. He is proven by land records to be a son of Richard.
  4. Jarrett Ingraham. Born say 1637 (based on marriage in 1662). He married 1st Rebecca Searle on 28 May 1662 in Boston; he married 2nd Waitstill Sabin on 22 April 1692 in Rehoboth.
Claimed children for which their is no evidence:
  1. John Ingraham of Hadley. Born about 1642 (aged 80 at death in 1722).He is sometimes said to be a son of Richard Ingraham, however, there are no records of any kind which actually show a connection. The birth date is also a bit late for him to be a son of Richard.
  2. Henry Ingraham of Boston. Born say 1647 (based on marriage in 1672). He married Lydia Dowse by 1672. He is sometimes said to be a son of Richard Ingraham, however, there are no records of any kind which actually show a connection. The birth date is also a bit late for him to be a son of Richard.
  3. Abigail Ingraham. Born say 1629 (rough estimate based on her husband's birth in 1627). There is no evidence that her father is Richard Ingraham. There is no evidence that her LNAB was even Ingraham.

Death

Died: 7 August 1683 in Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts.[6][15]
Will: of Richard Ingraham of Northampton[16]
Dated 25 January 1681; proved 21 September 1683
Summary:
My loving wife to be the sole heir to my estate & to her heirs forever
my estate in Northampton, in the Bay, or elsewhere
except my working tools to son-in-law Calleb Pumry
my well-beloved wife Joan Ingraham the sole power and rights to al my estate
well-beloved wife to be sole executor
(If this Richard had children of his own he completely disinherited them - very unusual).


Common Errors to Avoid

  • LNAB of 1st wife: A genealogy published by Raymon Meyers Tingley in 1935 stated that Alexander Wignall was the father of Elizabeth, wife of Richard Ingraham. Robert Charles Anderson states, regarding the 1935 article by Tingley: "Nothing is known about the wife of Richard Ingraham, and this whole construction apparently derived from Tingley's imagination."[17]
  • First wife's name: Is there any evidence that the name of the first wife is Elizabeth? We have no marriage record which names her. We have no baptism record which names her. There is no death record for her. The only place she could be named is in a land record and I have found no evidence of this.
  • Date of 1st marriage: A genealogy published by Raymon Meyers Tingley in 1935 stated that Richard Ingraham married Elizabeth Wignall on 4 April 1628 in Barrowby, Lincolnshire. This name and date are not supported by any records. Robert Charles Anderson states, regarding the 1935 article by Tingley: "Nothing is known about the wife of Richard Ingraham, and this whole construction apparently derived from Tingley's imagination."[17] A check of the Barrowby parish register shows no such marriage took place.[18] Some sources indicate Elizabeth married Richard Ingraham April 4,1624 in Watertown, Massachusetts. Again, this marriage does not occur in the primary records.
  • Immigration: He initially settled in that part of Salem now known as Marblehead.[19] The evidence for this is lacking and is very improbable.
  • Birth in Fishtoft: A Richard Ingram, son of John Ingram, was baptized on 18 March 1600 in Fishtoft, Lincolnshire, England. This same Richard Ingram was buried on 17 June 1601. This is not the birth record of the immigrant.[20]
  • Freeman 1631: It has been said a Richard Ingraham, on October 19, 1630, asked for and on May 18,1631 became Freeman of Massachusetts. This appears incorrect and no such record of this exists.[21]

From Larry Chesebro' chesebro.net

Richard's ancestry simply is unknown and all claims to his Royal ancestry cannot be accepted! He's NOT the son of Jane Mallory and Arthur Ingram, esq. Neither is he the son of Jane Mallory, daughter of Sir William Mallory and wife of Thomas Lascelles.
I, as many others, have tried to link Richard to Sir Arthur Ingram, II born ca 1598 and Eleanor Slingsby through Sir Arthur Ingram, I and Jane Mallory, and even directly, but cannot! My research has found Ingram, Mallory and Slingsby records eliminating their families as ancestors of Richard. I have maintained our information for the rich Slingsby and Mallory history and because both families have other links to the Chesebro' family. And, there is always the possibility that Sir Arthur's father, Sir Arthur, II, or grandfather, Hugh, could be related in some other way than directly to Richard.
My extensive and documented data is online at http://chesebro.net where you can search for Hugh Ingram in the Family Files and then view tree information for the Ingram/Ingraham descendants and their Slingsby and Mallory connections with their tree information.

Research notes

Torrey's NE Marriages before 1700: INGRAHAM, Richard (-1683) & 1/wf [?Elizabeth WIGNALL]; by 1631, ?4 Apr 1628, doubtful; Rehoboth/Northampton {Ingraham (ms) 3; Davol-Willets 104; Tingley-Meyers 155; Snow-Estes 1:473, 476}
INGRAHAM, Richard (-1683) & Joan (ROCKWELL) BAKER, w Jeffrey/Geoffery; 11 Dec 1668; Northampton {Warner-Harrington 548; Northampton (ms) 144; Ingraham (ms) 3; Sv. 1:96; Davol-Willets 105; Dunham-Boyd 47; Tingley-Meyers 155} Key
Not listed in Great Migration Directory
- Warner-Harrington 548: Warner, Frederick Chester, The Ancestry of Samuel, Freda and John Warner, typescript, 5 vols. (Boston, 1949, 1955). Vol 1, p 25. Vol 3 Page 548, Vol 4 Page 653, Vol 5 820 No help for name of wife.
- Ingraham (ms): Jones, Matt B., “Notes Concerning Richard Ingraham . . .,” typescript (n.p., 1904). Not yet found. In NEHGS Manuscript Collection/
- Sv. 1:96: Savage, James A., Genealogical Dictionary of the First Settlers of New England (Boston: Little, Brown, 1860–62). Checked and incorporated into bio.
- Davol-Willets 104: Frost, Josephine C., Ancestors of Frank Herbert Davol and His Wife, Phebe Downing Willits (New York: F. H. Hitchcock, 1925): page 104. Checked and incorporated into bio.
- Dunham-Boyd 47: Boyd, Cora (Dunham), “. . . Ancestors and Descendants of Wilford William and Cora Dunham Boyd 1620–1928,” mimeographed (St. Louis, 1928): page 47. Checked and incorporated into bio.
- Tingley-Meyers 155: Tingley, Raymon Meyers. Some Ancestral Lines: Being a record of some of the ancestors of Guilford Solon Tingley and his wife, Martha Pamelia Meyers Tingley. (Rutland, 1935): page 155. Checked and incorporated into bio.

Sources

Footnotes and citations:
  1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 TAG, vol. 21 (1944): pages 190-191. "Notes on Richard Ingraham."
  2. ↑ Arnold.Vital Record of Rehoboth.(1897): page 910. Note: first entry incorrectly transcribed as "Ruth Ingram;" an examination of the original shows the name to be Rich. Ingram."
  3. ↑ NEHGR, vol. 4 no. 1 (January 1850): page 26. "More Freeman: Northampton".
  4. ↑ TAG, vol. 19 (1942): pages 77-90. "Early Ingraham Families."
  5. ↑ Anderson., The Great Migration Begins, vol. 1, (1995): page 342.
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 Northampton, Robert J. Dunkle ed. Vital Records of Northampton, Massachusetts. (AmericanAncestors online database): page 109. AmericanAncestors.org link
  7. ↑ E.g. Tingley. Some Ancestral Lines... (1935): page 155.
  8. ↑ Savage, James. A Genealogical Dictionary of the First Settlers of New England Showing Three Generations of Those Who Came Before May, 1692. Vol. I-IV. Boston, MA. 1860-1862. pg 523
  9. ↑ Northampton: Massachusetts: Vital Records, 1620-1850 (Online Database: AmericanAncestors.org, New England Historic Genealogical Society, 2001-2016): pahe 863.
  10. ↑ Arnold. Vital Records of Rehoboth. (1897): page 67.
  11. ↑ Arnold. Vital Records of Rehoboth. (1897): page 806.
  12. ↑ Arnold. Vital Records of Rehoboth. (1897): page 322.
  13. ↑ Arnold. Vital Records of Rehoboth. (1897): page 871.
  14. ↑ Boston. Report of the Record Commissioners Containing Boston Births, Baptisms, Marriages, and Deaths. (1908): page 57.
  15. ↑ Massachusetts, Town and Vital Records, 1620-1988 (Ancestry.com online database). Northampton Births, Marriages and Death. Image 514 of 2680.
  16. ↑ Probate Records, 1660-1916; Index, 1660-1971. Salt Lake City, Utah: Filmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah, 1971. Film # 007705549, Item 2, Image 224. Vol 2: Page 13, Will of Richard Ingraham of N Hampton and Page 14, (Will of Jone Ingraham of N Hampton).
  17. ↑ 17.0 17.1 Robert Charles Anderson, The Great Migration Begins: Immigrants to New England 1620-1633, Volumes I-III, 3 vols., 1995). Page 1986. Ancestry subscribers, NEHGS Subscribers.
  18. ↑ Lincs To The Past website. Barrowby Parish Records - Marriages, Baptisms & Burials (1628-1629). Images of original records, ( image 6 of 66).
  19. ↑ Thompson, Alice W. The Name and Family of Ingraham. Place of publication not identified: publisher not identified, 1948. Page 8.
  20. ↑ "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975", FamilySearch online database. (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NG4R-Q9Y ), Richard Inggrvm, 18 March 1600. Note: search Richard Inggrvm on FamilySearch.
  21. ↑ Andrews H.F. List of freemen, Massachusetts Bay Colony from 1630 to 1691. (1916):page 24. Not found in the NEHGR also where all the freemen records were published.
Source list:
  • The American Genealogist, vol. 19 (1942): pages 77-90. "Early Ingraham Families of New England," by Donald Lines Jacobus. AmericanAncestors.org link.
  • The American Genealogist, vol. 21 (1944): pages 190-191. "Notes on Richard Ingraham of Rehoboth, Massachusetts, 1643," by John Benjamin Nichols. AmericanAncestors.org link.
  • Anderson, Robert Charles, The Great Migration Begins: Immigrants to New England 1620-1633, vol. 1: A - F, (Boston: NEHGS, 1995): page 342.
  • Boston. A Report of the Record Commissioners Containing Boston Births, Baptisms, Marriages, and Deaths, 1630-1699. (Boston: Rockwell and Churchill, 1883; Boston: Municipal Printing Office, 1908).
  • Frost, Josephine C., Ancestors of Frank Herbert Davol and His Wife, Phebe Downing Willits (New York: F. H. Hitchcock, 1925): page 104.
  • Northampton, Robert J. Dunkle ed. Vital Records of Northampton, Massachusetts. (AmericanAncestors online database): page 109. AmericanAncestors.org link
  • Savage, James A., Genealogical Dictionary of the First Settlers of New England. (Boston: Little, Brown, 1860–62): vol. 1 page 96.
  • Tingley, Raymon Meyers. Some Ancestral Lines: Being a record of some of the ancestors of Guilford Solon Tingley and his wife, Martha Pamelia Meyers Tingley. (Rutland, 1935): page 155.
  • William Richard Cutter, [1] "New England Families, Genealogical and Memorial: A Record of the Achievements of Her People in the Making of Commonwealths and the Founding of a Nation" page 140
  • Massachusetts, Town and Vital Records, 1620-1988 (Ancestry.com online database). Northampton Births, Marriages and Death. Image 514 of 2680.
See also:
Contributors:




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Jeffrey Moss
I once thought Richard was the son of Arthur Ingram 1565 and Susan Browne, 1585. Since Joseph Ingram of St. Ives was sponsored by John Browne of London (who settled in VA), I thought there may be a connection. Merchant John Browne of London was listed that he attended the baptismal in London of Hugh's granddaughter. Richard immigrated about ten years before the other Ingram's to VA and MD.

Then I found the sources for Richard Ingram, baptized in Haddenham, Cambridgeshire as a son of Richard. That city is the town of St. Ives, Huntingdonshire where my family lived. Richard was the son of a Richard Ingram, whom I had as one of the nine sons of Hugh Arthur Ingram "The Younger". Father Richard had two marriages in Haddenham. My tree link for Richard Ingraham: << https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/166247480/person/362242421213/facts >>

During my checking of DNA matches on three sites, I have only matched with one person with their line going back to Richard Ingraham.

It would make sense that Richard had a connection to the wealthier Ingram's Hugh "Younger" and their contacts from London. Hugh may have been Richard's grandfather.

There is a 1688 birth of John Ingram, son of Richard Ingram in Doddington, Cambridgeshire. If he is from lineage Richard - Richard - John 1688, then this is not the Richard Ingraham lineage.

posted by Jeffrey Moss
edited by Jeffrey Moss
[Living Bostick]
I wish I could help out DNA wise with this one, but the only Ingraham cousins I could find were of the Richard Ingram line (and they have minimal trees) . (Maybe one day when we have more Ingraham/Ingram DNA matchs will we know for certain of this line which is possible in the future with Y DNA comparisons) I haven't found any other cousins. I do however think it is important to reveal that he gave money to Harvard College and even Harvard carries this book which states his origin: I think it should be noted for the records as the author states in the beginning of his book, not all evidence will be found. I wish also I knew how to find the documents one needs to prove his existance but the "experts" Such as Savage himself has placed the American Ingraham family with the Aristocratic one. Second sons are so very hard to prove, just look at Prince Harry, it would hardly be believed in 300 years from now that he moved to America if we do not have proper documentation. https://books.google.com/books?id=Bc8UAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1664&lpg=PA1664&dq=Richard+Ingrham+gave+to+harvard+in+1672&source=bl&ots=kbpimED6dJ&sig=ACfU3U0lyg6B_oN78oxIdywwab1fVuMNtw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgucqv7vvtAhUIrJ4KHdDQDZ8Q6AEwA3oECAcQAg#v=onepage&q=Richard&f=false
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
Stanton-3574 T Stanton
His support of Harvard is mentioned not too far above Sources. As Jillaine has noted below, this profile is in serious need of a rework and I'll put it on my list if none of the PMs offer to undertake the task. While it cannot be stated as certainty, when I read the statement "not all evidence will be found" in the apology of a 1910 genealogical work, that says to me 'we cannot support our theory with documentation or a preponderance of secondary sources but we present it anyway.' I didn't understand what you meant by "one needs to prove his existence." Can you elaborate?
posted by T Stanton
[Living Bostick]
Sure, I meant "prove the existence of his lineage", to be more clear. I wish she put the Harvard mention in the Biography, as if you read the first line it states "All that is known of him" without mentioning that he gave to Harvard. Also I agree, It would be nice to know where the sources of the book came from to lend to the acceptance of said theories.
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
M Cole
I added some notes with Torrey's sources and a link to Richard and Joan's wills. Also, Richard technically should be PGM Adjunct (he's not in the Directory and first record of him is in 1643 (see TAG 21:190).

Just a word of caution about Ancestry DNA matches (i.e. atDNA): they aren't that useful this many generations back. Matches usually mean you share some ancestry with an endogamous population, but aren't really specific to relationship. (At least that's my understanding). With YDNA or mtDNA could learn a few things about family groupings of Ingrahams in Rehoboth. It looks like only sons William and Jarret are confirmed through documents, and daughter Abigail may not be an Ingraham at all. So for example, if you could find maternal descendants from the suspected daughters to compare mtDNA, you could determine whether its possible, they share a mother (with the caveat that the lineage may not be accurate). Not easy to trace that many generations along maternal lines, but is possible with a little luck. And same with Y-DNA, although with matches you can actually confirm a relationship, even if you couldn't confirm they were specifically Richard's sons.

posted by M Cole
edited by M Cole
[Living Bostick]
"Exactly", that is why I just explained why Y DNA testing would be great at this point to confirm the male line genetic markers of the Americans with those of Aristocratic lngraham line to confirm or rule out "Richards" line, we do not want people to give up hope because their line stops at the USA, now do we? And regarding atDNA, actually you can confirm a relationship and even find missing family members with autosomal dna matchs up to 6 generations but, your family tree must be exact and so must your matchs, welcome to the new tech.
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
Rewriting and sourcing of the bio mostly completed.

I propose that children John, Henry and Abigail be disconnected unless anyone can show a reason not to.

Abigail's LNAB needs to be changed to Unknown, as there is no record naming or even suggesting she is an Ingraham.

posted by Joe Cochoit
Stanton-3574 T Stanton
Excellent resource and rewrite.
posted by T Stanton
M Cole
Agreed. Nicely done Joe. Joe, I'm curious, do you think that Richard of Rehoboth and Richard of Northampton are the same person?
posted by M Cole
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
I actually don't think they are the same person. The will of Richard of Northampton is too unusual in the way it names his wife Joan only. However, it makes no genealogical difference and I am ok with keeping Richard of Rehoboth and Richard of Northampton merged as one person, with some notes given as to the uncertainty.
posted by Joe Cochoit
M Cole
I definitely got the impression from your narrative they were likely separate people....mostly just impacts anyone who might do further research... to keep in mind that he might have died sooner or ended up elsewhere.

For the two missing Torrey sources, one seems to be only available at the NEHGS Manuscript collection (I added a catalog link to the notes). The Warner-Harrington is available online. I added lnks...its actually on Page 25 that has the most on Richard, but its mostly concerned with his second wife. I don't think there's any new information in it.

posted by M Cole
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
Thanks for finding those sources!
posted by Joe Cochoit
M Cole
No problem. The 5 volumes of the Warner-Harrington was kind of tricky to navigate so I created a source page for it, in case anyone comes across it again: The Ancestry of Samuel, Freda and John Warner.
posted by M Cole
[Living Bostick]
I propose we leave it as is considering Abigail is in numerous secondary sources including. New England Marriages Prior to 1700 Genealogical Publishing Co., Baltimore, MD, 2004, p. 26 Avery, James and 2w Abigail ? Ingraham ? (Cheseborough) Holmes (-1715), w Samuel, w Joshua; 4 July 1698; Groton, CT, Stonington, CT. ALSO Avery, John (1654) & Abigail Cheseborough 29 November 1675 m Stonington CT

Which accurately lists her 3 marriages (there is a marriage document that she married Holmes so an Abigail did exist, thus so far it is truthful information) and surnames of the other marriages are past down through 300 years of memoirs of our Founders decendants. Also I haven't had a chance to examine Thomas Minors bible yet which I think there might be a mention in there as well? And if that doesn't count, then do what you want. You'll just end up disappointing some people as expert Historians don't matter I guess especially for Richards line.

posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
New England Marriages to 1700 is not a trustworthy source which can be used to prove anything. Torrey when collecting his data indiscriminately used all sources he could find, both the good and the bad. It contains thousands of errors. When using Torrey you have to look up every single source he used in order to understand the data. You will see I did this on this profile (though I haven't found 2 yet). They were all poor and useless to me for actually writing a bio of Richard Ingraham.

Do any sources actually name Abigail as being an Ingraham? You are clearly a descendant of Abigail, and I would suggest to you that hanging onto a false LNAB will prevent you or anyone else from discovering her true identity.

posted by Joe Cochoit
[Living Bostick]
Alight then disconnect her from Richard Ingraham then. Also the Late Judge Wheeler stated her last name was Ingraham as well (see Images for this evidence).
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
M Cole
Leia, regarding Torrey: which version of Torrey are you looking at? If you're using the one on Ancestry.com or on googlebooks, it doesn't include the notes of the sources where the information came from. I really wish they had never published that edition as it kind of obscures the actual intent of what Torrey was trying to do...collecting and indexing information but not necessarily validating it.

Here's a little bit about the differences in the two versions in this g2g post.

posted by M Cole
[Living Bostick]
I am not doing anything I was speaking about Richard, trying to help. The next thing I know I am being attacked about Abigail. I haven't even had the chance to fully research her and these two are attacking me since they are aware somehow I am related, they want to rid her of Richards line as a personal attack on me I guess even though her own father is not even proven.
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
[Living Bostick]
All sources that I have on Abigail are on Ancestry.com through the USA and the UK and on geni in which a huge Bio was written up for the master profile of the James & Samuel Avery line which notes her & references her heavily in it.
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
Minor, Thomas. The Diary of Thomas Minor, Stonington, Connecticut, 1653-1684. (1899): page 16. Source for the date of Samuel Cheesbrough's first marriage, but doesn't name his wife.
posted by Joe Cochoit
[Living Bostick]
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/23664986/abigail-avery

Well you should inform this person then that their work is NIL. And she isn't unknown, she married 3 times. I'm not sure why all of a sudden you want to write her out of Richards line after she has been there in the geneologies for hundreds of years. Is this a personal attack on me? How did you know I was related to Abigail? You purposely decided to all of a sudden write her out of Richards line as a vile attack on me BEFORE you made your proposal to cause chaos. You first searched to make sure I was related to her. Richard is not even proven. https://minerdescent.com/ Control F she is listed as Hannah Ingraham.

posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
Leia, I do not know why you feel attacked at all. My apologies if you feel that way. All we are trying to do is make WikiTree accurate and it is not personal at all. How is anything I wrote a "vile attack"? Now I am the only one who should be insulted. I assumed you are descendant of Abigail only because you mentioned her in previous posts, as such, I am asking if you have any primary sources which name her.

I have looked at every single source for Richard Ingraham, and none include a daughter Abigail and the most reliable ones reject her.

We do not use FAG as a source in this time period because it is so inaccurate. We will tell them they are wrong.

If there are no primary sources for Abigail which provide her LNAB or ancestry, then we need to fix it.

posted by Joe Cochoit
[Living Bostick]
Because I was talking solely about Richard and the next thing I know you suddenly act like I am related to Abigail (how would you know that unless you looked me up?) and made the comment to get rid of her, that is why I feel attacked. But, I guess I should thank you for informing her that none of her marriage records (which ended up being 100% accurate) were actually false in your own mind.
posted by [Living Bostick]
[Living Bostick]
There are primary sources for her ancestry, and it is within my piece described Counter Evidence on her profile w/images.
posted by [Living Bostick]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
Leia, please don't put pictures of your sources on Abigail. Source citations with links is fine.

I have put all 16 references with used by Torrey on her page. None of them make a case for her being Abigail Ingraham from primary records. The most interesting was Thomas Minor's Diary which is the original primary source for Samuel Cheesbrough's marriage date, however, he did not name Samuel's wife.

posted by Joe Cochoit
M Cole
I added the one that you couldn't find...it looks like the earliest reference to her as Abigail Ingraham is from a reader query in 1890. My suspicion is that he may have conflated the marriage of Mary Ingraham to Samuel Cheesborough. Even though its only published as a query, once its published it gets picked up by others as fact (even before the internet!).
posted by M Cole
edited by M Cole
[Living Bostick]
I don't suppose you saw the brand new source I put up in the images? It is referencing the Clark Brown statement, his Great Great Grandfather is Joshua Holmes and he stated as fact that he was keeping his pedigree and that her last name is Ingraham. The statement is in the images under The Brown Family Lineage document" in the Abigail Profile. He is the oldest evidence. As a Great Great Grandson, he would of known the truth through information passed down in his family since the late 1700's, early 1800's, I gather that is when he lived. Mrs. Abigail died in the early 1700s at like age 80. This testimony has some clout, and supercedes some of the statements you have gathered as evidence against her being of the line. I find it interesting her marriages and everything else checks out except, this one thing-the surname. Until I came across this statement now it seems much more believable that she is indeed an "Ingraham". Anyhow I am done stating my case until anything new comes up.

I updated the information to include Avery line evidence from Geni and other primary sources such as deeds and depositions etc.

posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
Cochoit-2 Joe Cochoit
I did see it, thank you, and perhaps this is where the name Ingraham came from. But I also read the rest of the paragraph:

"He also says the Widow Chesebrough was born a Marvin. As Clark Brown calls her Anna Chesebrough, it appears he has confused her with Anna Stevenson, Samuel's mother, born in England who married Wm. Chesebrough."

So, no Clark Brown did not have a good understanding of his own ancestry. And for that matter, he did not identify Abigail as being an Igraham at all.

posted by Joe Cochoit
[Living Bostick]
It was noted in the very next sentence what he meant....and that he was confused about the question and was speaking about another person in the family. He was being interviewed. Also in the next paragraph, it states the geneology did not come soley from him, it came from Chesebrough geneology. I think you missed the whole point, that he was the one of the few people who kept a pedigree back then so, the information must of been passed down in the family as the interviewer knew all about Ingraham and no one questioned it so that is suggestive in itself. Anyhow I tried, I'm done. Do what you will.
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
M Cole
I think this is a perfect example of why its better to have her listed as Abigail Unknown. In this case the compiler was presented with a family document that gave a different name: Marvin. But because Clark Brown was mistaken about the first name, he dismissed the Marvin info, relying on the published Cheesborough Genealogy instead. Maybe he had already found that the pedigree was not that reliable. But my personal experience with these kinds of documents is that they may not be accurate, but even where they are wrong they contain some grain of truth. I would consider Marvin a clue worth noting, keeping in mind it might not be her last name but her father's first name or something. Or maybe its not Marvin, but Marvell...and perhaps completely wrong. But at least as valid a possibility as Ingraham, and probably one that hasn't been explored as much.

Anyway, here's a link to the 1st edition of the book (1929) which is available on archive.org: https://archive.org/details/brownfamilyhisto00spoo/page/n93/mode/2up?q=pedigree

This one detail about the pedigree that I loved: "The covers of the pedigree are made from the wall paper from his study in Brimfield."

posted by M Cole
[Living Bostick]
I look at all clues. But a reasonable explanation was written for it and I haven't found any traces of her ever being a Marvin in the Avery line family history or anywhere else. As stated he was confused or misunderstood the question and was referring to another family member. I tried to find a Marvin and think I found one in the next line near Fear.

There are no Marvins related to Abigail.

However from a quick search I did find: a Marvin Holmes born 1717 Son of Joshua Holmes and Fear Sturgis, in the next family down if you wan to go take a look for yourself on ancestry.com.

Also there were not that many people that came over from England to America. The only other Marvin I could find was an Abigail Marvin born Dec 16, 1637 from Hartford CT married to a Joshua Sergeant Bouton II and that is completely not any kind of clue.... Nope no clues found on Marvin, He must been referring to Joshua Holmes son by accident.

posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
[Living Bostick]
Yes because it held some information, dates are facts how others remembered it and it was documented during "the time". Also I believe Brown's testimony lends some credibility because no matter your opinion, he is closest to the family, along with the Chesebrough geneologies, closer to the timeline of where the evidence actually is not 200 years later when people are suddenly scratching their heads about her.
posted by [Living Bostick]
edited by [Living Bostick]
M Cole
I agree, but it lends credibility to her name being Marvin, not Ingraham. The author (Ella Brown Spooner, 1880-1963) was working from documents, the pedigree, letters, copies of sermons about a hundred years after Rev Brown died in 1817...so its just her interpretation, and choice to dismiss what was written in his pedigree. (But to her credit she included what he had written so we can discuss it now).
posted by M Cole
edited by M Cole
[Living Bostick]
There is no credibility as Marvin is the name of Joshua Holmes and Fear Sturgis son Marvin Holmes born 1717. Try finding any other Marvins.
posted by [Living Bostick]
Smith-32867 Jillaine Smith
This narrative needs a rewrite into a neutral third person bio. Anyone want to take that on?
posted by Jillaine Smith
Thornton-1836 Jeanie (Thornton) Roberts
Should the marriage date/place be removed from the first marriage?
posted by Jeanie (Thornton) Roberts
Stanton-3574 T Stanton
I do believe we need to look at that. I find nothing that establishes the date, see reference to it possibly being 1624 (in Massachusetts), and since there is nothing to substantiate Barrowby perhaps no place should be given for the first marriage. Thoughts?
posted by T Stanton
Nat Bergin
Hi, I just came from his wife's page, in our ancestry we have his parents as Lady Eleanor Slingsby and Arthur Ingram.

He was born on the 9th of April, 1600 - Fishcoft or Barrowby, Lincolnshire, (or Somerset), England. And died the 7th of Aug 1683 - Northampton, Hampshire, Massachusetts, USA.

We know about this because apparently he and a woman named Elizabeth Wignall had a child (Robert Palmer Ingram) in 1615 in England. We know that Robert and Elizabeth Sisley Girton had a son, Joseph in London England, 1640 who migrated to america and died in Virginia. That side of the family has been in the middle/south ever since.

posted by Nat Bergin
Selman-334 David Selman
Hi Nat,

Thank you for posting on Richard (Ingraham) Ingram's profile. I'm sure that the profile manager will be looking at that.

You are welcome to use our database and G2G Forum for research. If you are interested in collaborating on the SURNAME family and contributing to our shared tree, then you should upgrade. There is a link under your name, next to Guest Member on your profile to Upgrade

If you have any questions about how WikiTree works, log into WikiTree and go to your profile. Use the ‘Reply’ link below my comment to be sure I will be notified. Alternatively, click my name to visit my profile, where you can leave a comment, or send a private message.

Take care

David ~ WikiTree Greeter

posted by David Selman
Stanton-3574 T Stanton
Nat, please review the profile narrative in detail. The parentage you suggest for Richard Ingram, one of my 10th ggfs, has been reviewed by a number of scholars and found to lack credible documentation. The Wignall information came from an undocumented 1935 work by Raymon Tingley which Robert Anderson has stated sprang "from Tingley's imagination." If you have found new primary source documentation which sheds light on the ancestry of Richard Ingram, please do place that here in Comments where it can be reviewed and discussed. And we hope you will take David's suggestion and become a regular WikiTree members.
posted by T Stanton
Nat Bergin
I'm sorry, but I really don't appreciate your demeaning tone. This information was compiled long ago, and from a now dead great grandmother of mine. She diligently went around the country looking at gravestones and formal records. This is not something that I wish to take up my time, as I actually have a life- however I thought it would be nice to add some information that we have as you are clearly lacking. Hope that helps!
posted by Nat Bergin
Stanton-3574 T Stanton
Nat, you have my apology but there was no intent to demean. We all have lives outside WikiTree and contribute as we are able. I'll again offer that If you have found new primary source documentation which sheds light on the ancestry of Richard Ingram, please do place that here in Comments where it can be reviewed and discussed. We collaborate here by offering new information and documentation for everyone to review and discuss. If you have something that would mean a re-examination of Tingley's Wignall theory is needed please do present it--everyone would like to know the origins of Richard Ingram.
posted by T Stanton
Langridge-71 Janet (Langridge) Wild MSc RN
Hi

This profile is in the suggestion feed in regards to <ref>Savage</ref> this reference is too short and does not appear to link to a useful source. Please expand the source or delete

Thanks Janet

Data Doctor

posted by Janet (Langridge) Wild MSc RN
B-404 Anne B
Thanks Janet easily fixed. We all know what "Savage" is.
posted by Anne B
[Living Trogstad]
http://www.susaningraham.net/timothy-and-abigail.html

I came across this for review and placement where it may find a home

posted by [Living Trogstad]
Stawski-25 Andrea (Stawski) Pack
http://www.susaningraham.net/richard-and-elizabeth.html
posted by Andrea (Stawski) Pack
B-404 Anne B
I'm starting a G2G discussion. Come bring your sources.

Is the given name of Richard's first wife known? Is it Elizabeth? Where is the record for the marriage 4 Apr 1628? Anderson (Great Migration) considers Elizabeth Wignall to be a figment of Raymon Meyers Tingley's imagination (See profile for her alleged brother John )

posted by Anne B
Smith-62120 Ellen Smith
Ingraham-163 and Ingraham-26 appear to represent the same person because: The only available biographical details for Ingraham-163 (immigration to New England and name of second wife) are consistent with Ingraham-26 and/or the other profile I've matched to it.
posted by Ellen Smith
Smith-62120 Ellen Smith
Ingraham-532 and Ingraham-26 appear to represent the same person because: Biographical details match.
posted by Ellen Smith
Darrell Parker
Ingraham-331 and Ingraham-253 appear to represent the same person because: same name, dob, dod
posted by Darrell Parker

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Categories: Puritan Great Migration Other Head of Household | Puritan Great Migration