Is deferring to a FindAGrave headstone on vital dates the best strategy?

Question

From the various data points, the only birth value that seems to be repeated is 1853!

Alpheus Fann

A. Census reporting

1860 = 5 c. 1855

1880 = 27 c. 1853

1900 = 47 @ Feb 1853

1910 = 59 @ 1851

1930 = 77 @ 1853

B. Death Record 19 Oct 1938, age 88 = 12 Feb 1850 (88 Years, 8 Months, 7 Days)

C. FindAGrave 12 Feb 1858 - 18 Oct 1938 = 80 years

Note that his father had a child by the woman that he had married within a range that conflicts with 12 Feb 1858 - while not impossible, given two different mothers, it might be more conceivable (no pun intended) that Alpheus was born earlier under a pre-marital scenario and at a point in the father's life when he was more youthful and unwilling to commit to Alpheus' mother Lucy Fann.
 

Answer 1

I have headstones in my own family that are wrong.  My great uncle's stone has his burial date instead of the death date.  This was in the 1950s and the family knew it when they saw the stone, but it still there.  There's a note on his FindAGrave memorial that mentions it.  This is only one example.

I wouldn't use it over better evidence.  And if it's all you have, then it better than nothing.

Comments

At my grandfather's funeral, my great-aunt teased my grandmother about lying about her age, because the stone mason had 1903 instead of 1904. My grandmother, not wanting to appear too petty, had it changed to 1905. So now there are two numbers and both are wrong.

Answer 2

I'm always hesitant to let grave markers be the last word given how frequently they seem to be in error but I think the narrative covers the subject quite well.

Comments

Totally agree with this. I think your comments should be in the profile under research notes -- in which case it does not matter what birth date you ultimately choose, as profile manager, you get to decide which is best value (to a certain extent). Point out the discrepancy, add your research and collaborate.

Acknowledging the errors on Find A Grave is valuable in teaching people better practices. Showing you have seen the difference and the tools you used to evaluate the veracity, might help make some better genealogists down the road.

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To me, research notes are for questionably sourced data; whereas, we have two generally accepted sources (a census report and a death certificate) and a less accepted, but photographic evidenced "source," FindAGrave.

The only reason this came up was a Data Doctors error due to the mismatch on the entered birth date versus the FindAGrave birth date. So it looks like I need to make the best case to the FindAGrave memorial owner to revise the birth date to coincide with the death certificate.

It is my understanding that literacy of the census takers in Sampson, as well as general literacy was not stellar in this period. So it might make the most sense to take the calculation of the medical examiner.

From the ME's report:

• Informant: Radford Fann, Roseboro, NC Route 2. This was the youngest son (ca. 1887-1964), who had married in 1906, and whose youngest child was born in 1931.
• Signature: D M Royal, MD of Salemburg (?) NC. Probable kin (at least by marriage) of Alpheus. One of his daughters married a Royal. Collaterals also were Royal kin.

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You have proof that gravestone and find a grave are in error to sources on wikitree, so mark the suggestion as False Suggestion with comment as sources in wikitree or something like that.

Don't change what you have sourced to match Find A Grave. suggestion is so it can be checked.

Also, remember that the death report uses information from someone else, who may not remember accurate age, also.  You have a month and year specified on 1900 census, which I would use. Other census use an age, so the year is calculated, so those fluctuate based on when it was done and what they or the person giving the information states.

The Feb 1858 may just be a typo on Find A Grave. Send them a link to 1900 census as proof.

Answer 3

1860 census said he was 5 with a brother 7.  I'm inclined to think that was probably correct, or not more than a year out.

Hard to believe you'd say a child was 5 if he was 10 or 2 at the time.

Can you confirm the brother's age?

Comments

I agree, mostly.  I often find the earliest census the most persuasive, although there are many exceptions.  Sometimes people weren't home and the neighbor answered for them.  Some parents were illiterate and didn't know their own children's ages (I've seen that noted in records).  Some census takers made mistakes when recording information.  It has to be evaluated as part of the overall picture.

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Yes, I usually go with the age reported on the earliest census. It is unlikely a child of 5 is going to be mistaken for a child of 12, but very easy to mistake a man of 20 for a man of 28. Also, a lot of people may not have known their exact birthdates, but you can guess a small child's age pretty accurately to within a year or two, even if the child doesn't know how old they are.

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Adolphus D Fann was born 21 Nov 1850

Samuel Alpheus Fann was born 12 Feb 1850

Therefore, they both were presumptively about 9 or 10 at the 1860 census that showed them as:

Olphas, 5 (Alpheus)

Adolphus, 7

I am inclined, as I indicated elsewhere, to go with the birth date on the medical examiner's certificate, as he was probably the most literate person to do any reporting.

Thanks for the note about looking at his brothers data. By some reports, they were by different fathers, and their mother clearly never married.

I wrote the brother's profile much earlier in my work on WikiTree, so I might need to take another pass at it since it was last edited 7 Sep 2019, and by re-examining these age questions, I might come up with more direction.

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Don't 12 February and 21 November, both in 1850, seem awfully close together for sibling births?  That poor mother didn't get much of a break!

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The dates pass the sibling birth validity check. I  think another reviewer also commented that this is a "conceivable" scenario.

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Ha ha!  I still say, "that poor mother!"

Answer 4

So long as you keep in mind that anything you use from the FAG by way of name, date or place, needs to be verified (proven)

Comments

This is generally a good idea.  My g-grandmother's tombstone reads she was born in 1853 according to FAG, but every other source gives 1863.  It turns out that the gravestone is badly weathered, and thus was misread by FAG.

That being said, has it not be repeated a thousand times on wikitree....."Any source is better than no source."?

Answer 5

A tombstone is not an accurate source of birth and death dates. Tombstones are frequently wrong.  Using the Find a Grave date in lieu of the other dates, say from the 1900 census or even the death record (which in this case may very easily also be wrong) wouldn't be useful.

My own grandfather had no idea when he was born, but even though I have at least six different sources for his birth date and location, because his dad died in 1892, that rules out dates like 1895 (he was winging it).  His tombstone is wrong.  The obituary is wrong. He doesn't have a death certificate, even though he died in 1936, but if he did, it would be wrong. I'm pretty sure he was at least 5 years older than he thought.  So that makes the few census records and many other records incorrect too.  And yes, I'm sure of who his dad was because of my DNA relationships, and I know when his dad died.

Answer 6

I have an ancestor who basically was 2 years younger with every census....by the time she died she had lost 16 years of age.   And her granddaughter was the informant, so she had no idea how old her grandmother really was....

Explaining the issue in the biography is the best approach.

Answer 7

I would go with the most common year from the census records and that seems to be 1853 in this case. But only until you can find proof otherwise that supports or disproves this date.

In the meantime, add all the above details to the bio and state why you are using whichever year/date you choose to use.

I certainly would not be using the FAG record which does seem to be wildly inaccurate.

Comments

And mark the boxes in the profile as Uncertain.

Answer 8

I never rely on the dates on Find A Grave without finding documents to prove the dates.  I have found too many errors in the dates on tombstones in my family.  As an example my 2nd great grandfather's tombstone gives his date of birth as 22 September 1829 and his birth certificate from the Register office in London, England gives his date of birth as 5 February 1840.  The point is do not rely on the dates on tombstones unless you have the records for the person and your ordering the tombstone and giving the dates.  Other wise (1) you never know when the tombstone was placed on the grave, i.e., at time of death or 20 years later and (2) you do not know who ordered the tombstone and gave the information for the dates.

Answer 9

As a direct answer to your lead question, Fann, my answer/opinion would be "No."

And while ALL information sources are prone to human error, I believe that birth/marriage/death information are better sourced from primary documentation (especially documentation that we can view) that was created by acknowledged authoritarian/generally trusted entities of the day, such as governmental and church/religious organizations.

Answer 10

I guess the question is really on headstones in general whether found on FAG or elsewhere.  I have found many headstones in error.  I believe they are correct often enough that one can use the date but paper documentation can easily trump the headstone.  My most recent encounter had the year of birth wrong for both birth and death although, surprisingly, the day and month for those two dates was spot on.  But do not throw the baby out with the bath water.  Typically, relatives will make sure the data are correct on headstone even if some allow the error to remain in exchange for a discount on the price of the stone.  Also, even though many, including yours truly, rate the birth and death records more authoritative for their respective events, I have seen many errors in birth certificates (I have never detected errors in death certificates as it relates to death but often in personal data provided by the informant).

Comments

I used to wonder why relatives would put up with an error on a grave stone.  The someone pointed out (on a previous G2G thread, I think), that sometimes a family had to save up for years in order to pay for the stone.  By then, it was more likely there would be an error.

Answer 11

I am in agreement that grave markers are not to be the last word when it comes to age because my own grandfather's gravestone has the wrong date on it because the military paid for it and they went by his burial date instead of his death date.  He died on the last day of the year though, so it is actually only off by 1 day.

Answer 12

Can I add-on a question here as it is related?  I don't put the Find A Grave date without a confirming source. (Usually)  In many cases I'll have for example DOB 1850-00-00.   If Find A Grave shows 1850-11-2 I get 

Error "574 FindAGrave - Imprecise birth date "

on my suggestion list.  So should I insert the find a grave date with a note that it is unsubstantiated or leave it 1805-00-00.  Why do I get the error message if we're not supposed to use Find A Grave date.  

Comments

The reason you get the "error", is because WikiTree and Find-a-Grave don't match.

The report is not telling you which one is correct -- that's for you to decide.

You need to resolve the error one way or another -- often by marking the report as a "false error", so that the false suggestions goes away.

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That is where this all started with me.

After doing due diligence,  I determined that a WikiTree source supported a different date, so I submitted a correction to FindAGrave which was accepted and applied, and included supporting documentation.

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Yes thanks. I guess that’s the ideal. But I got discouraged with people who ignored or argued with the proposal, even with sources. Guess I should focus on the ones that we can improve!

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So if Find-a-Grave has been corrected, then eventually the Suggestions report will notice the correction and drop the "suggestion"

But I don't know how often the Suggestions report re-checks outside sites, such as Find-a-Grave.

Answer 13

Can there be too many "no" answers to this question? :)

My great-great grandmother was born in 1844 -- but her headstone says 1855 (and it doesn't look like an original headstone either)

I keep a list of headstone errors in my family tree -- I have dozens.

Comments

I submitted a correction to FindAGrave, basing his birth date on what was reported on the death certificate,  especially since the month was corroborated from one census, the informant was his son (with whom he had been living at least since the prior census), and the medical examiner did a full months, days and years of age calculation.

I appended the death certificate image to the FindAGrave memorial, too.

Answer 14

NO!

Here, I blogged about it: 

https://www.onceremovedblog.com/2019/10/the-truth-about-findagrave.html

https://www.onceremovedblog.com/2019/12/genealogy-sources-are-not-created.html

Comments

Findagrave should be a subsidiary source. The meat of your sources should be things like vital, probate, parish, and obituary records.