Review needed of Bell family of Norfolk

Question

It has been brought to my attention that there is quite possibly a bit of a mess as it relates to the Bell family.  I am not familiar with this family, so am hoping others can review and make any needed corrections to it.

Both Robert Bell and his grandfather Robert Bell are married to women named Elizabeth Inkpen.  Also, Sir Robert Bell and Sir Robert Bell have deaths of 1639 in Norfolk.

Are Elizabeth Bell and George Bell connected to the correct parents? Are the parents of Sir Robert Bell known?  Who are the parents of Philip Bell (this profile seems to possibly be a combination of two Philips)?

There may be other issues, but since I am not familiar with the line, I am not sure.  Thanks in advance for any assistance.

Comments

I've located this book but am not sure of its accuracy . . .

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Thanks Darlene! I'm not familiar with that book, and it's not one listed on https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Bell_Name_Study#Bell_Name_Study

It's 2008, which is promising, but a quick glance isn't going to cut it to determine how accurate it might be! I looked up what it said about "my" Robert Bell ancestor and found it cites as source just George Emmett Bell. His work seems to be the go-to source for American Bells. The Bell Name Study has a space page created by Joe Sneed that discusses G.E. Bell [here] (about a book that relies on his work), saying

The author's information about Robert Bell I's (Bell-884) descendants apparently comes largely from George Emmett Bell (Bell-1092), an insurance broker in Dallas TX about 1920, who corresponded with my grandmother, Mary Caroline Bell (Bell-1124). Much information in several other sources appears to be derived from this book.

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Hopefully someone can look at the various profiles that I have linked to figure them out.

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Hi

I did not add Inkwell as a wife of either Bell.It look to me that there is confusion over two Bell families. I was working backwards for Thomas Bell-2845, an immigrant who came to Jamestown in 1635 Jamestown in 1635. There are additional pages of information about the Bells in that book. I found the book on ancestry.com

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I have a note in research I kept that says

Bell,Thomas

1618-1678

From England to Jamestown 1635

married Mary Neal, daughter of Capt John Neal

I don't remember where I found that but I'll see if I can find it

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I added some trees on family search that support Thomas's parents and Thomas(they are in a side box). There are fourteen in all I only included a couple.

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Jenny, family search trees aren't reliable sources as a basis for attaching someone.  We need primary sources.  As RJ has noted, there are apparently no records to indicate the parentage of immigrant Thomas.

Answer 1

Hi Darlene, I am thinking the English family is real and the problem is to do with a mixing about a "gateway theory". Some changes have already been made in recent days, but basically ...

Thomas Bell ([[Bell-2845]]), an American, is mentioned in a book called Colonial Families of the United States of America (https://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/Bell-22845) which says he was related to the parliamentarian Robert Bell ([[Bell-1511]]).

I think cleaning up the English family will be easier if we know what was the latest research is on Thomas in America, and vice versa.

So, we need a US gateways specialist. Perhaps someone can add a tag to this discussion?

Comments

I agree I started out working from the Jamestown Thomas Bell filling in his parents Thomas Bell-2845

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See RJ's comment below.

Answer 2

Blomefield's pedigree is here

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/topographical-hist-norfolk/vol7/pp454-478

but Chester Waters says here that it's deficient and inaccurate.  That might be the cause of the trouble.

https://archive.org/details/genealogicalmem01wategoog/page/n160

Comments

RJ do you know anything about the Americans who were connected to this family on Wikitree? I think for the English family there are also several HOP biographies and probably a lot of material.

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Actually I can't see what problem Chester Waters has with the Blomefield pedigree.

There was a Thomas Bell age 17 shipped to Virginia in June 1635 on the Thomas and John (which belonged to the Culpeper brothers, who got rich in the convict business).  A Thomas Bell age 14 had been shipped the previous month.

A headright in that name was redeemed in 1638. Could be either of those, or more likely neither.

In the 1650s and 1660s there were about 10 land patents by Thomas Bells, probably 3 different men in 3 different counties.  Any of them could be any of the earlier Thomases, or not.

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So you would say the origin of Thomas in Virginia is unknown?

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So far as I can see.

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In that case, that Thomas should be detached from current parents with a note in the biography.

There are still the issues/questions noted in my original post that need addressing wtih regard to other Bells.  Thanks.

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It is not uncommon for the same person's name to be used repeatedly on land patents.

Jenny

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Hi I looked at the source that was provided, Thomas ,Jamestown and Virginia did not come up.,maybe I am searching wrong,if so please share what you find.

I went to the Bell Book on the one name study page. If I read the book correctly it starts with the first census 1790

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I am not as familiar with the English sources, what is the logic in taking away his parents. It looks like you are judging him to be fourteen and not nineteen is that correct?

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Hi Has anyone looked at the3ir DNA for documentation through the wives?The paper trail says Thomas is my 8th grandfather

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1. Concerning Thomas, perhaps we really should start a new G2G discussion to summarize issues.

2. We have to remember that the question in cases like this is not how we disproved something but how we proved something. What RJ was explaining is basically that the name Thomas Bell was common both in America and in England. There does not appear to be any proof of what his English origins were.

3. Coming back to the family of Robert Bell in Norfolk, the subject of this discussion, the original trigger for activity from me and others was the way in which events involving people with similar names all around England were linked. We must not work that way.

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Andrew, I agree that it might be good for a new G2G discussion for part of the issues with which we're dealing.  Having no prior knowledge of this family, I've spent a lot of time lately reading about them.  I've tried to sort out the family a bit, but different sources have different information as to which Bell married Elizabeth Inkpen.  I disconnected the immigrant Thomas Bell from parents due to a lack of evidence.  But I certainly need some assistance to answer the questions with regard to the half dozen linked profiles in my original question.

I'll be traveling and mostly unavailable through Sunday, so will hope someone has a chance to research and perhaps repair/improve profiles/connections.  Thanks in advance.

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Well this is Judge Anderson

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Anderson_(judge)

and this is his son

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/anderson-edward-1573

Calls him Edward not Edmund.  Agrees that he married Elizabeth Inkpen and died spvp.  Doesn't say who she remarried.

So the mystery is why Hist Parl

http://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1558-1603/member/bell-robert-1577

thinks Judge Bell had 3 wives, and why Oxford DNB goes along with it, so I've heard (haven't seen it).

The first one looks like his grandson's wife and the 2nd one looks like his son's wife (Inkpen).  Until you look at the dates.  Both of those women were born far too late to be dead by 1559, when Bell married Dorothy.  If those are the women Hist Parl had in mind, I don't want to know they could make that big a screw-up.

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The HOP article has Edward Anderson, 1st son of Edmund, born 1573 and dying before Aug 1605.  Let's say they (he and Eliz. Inkpen) married circa 1600.  It's impossible for her to have married Robert Bell who died in 1577.  There must be an Edmund Anderson besides the Judge, that Bell married his widow. I note the HOP just states she was Elizabeth, but no mention of Inkpen.Ditto with the Wikipedia article on Robert Bell, although it states daughter-in-law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bell_(Speaker).Sir Robert Bell (d 1577) married secondly to Elizabeth Anderson, widowed daughter-in-law of Edmund Anderson.

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But then again, the 2007 American book thinks Judge Bell had a previous wife whose maiden name was Anderson, and they had kids.

If that's right, everybody else has missed it completely and got it all wrong.

If there were kids, it's not surprising they'd be obscure, because they wouldn't benefit from the Beaupré money, and the judge came from nowhere with nothing of his own.

But it's odd that he'd ignore them completely in his will, where he calls Beaupré his 4th son.