Option to text? Or stress email use in sign up? Or both?

Question

I am increasingly struck by the non responsiveness of otherwise active wikitreers to both comments on profiles they manage and g2g questions associated with profiles they manage. It really is quite stunning.

I am also aware that the next generation of at least Americans is increasingly not using email.

I don't know if these two things are connected.  

I think we need to stress on sign up and welcoming the importance of engaging in collaboration which means responding to messages that come into your inbox from profiles you manage. (And that if they can't or don't want to, they should "downgrade" from PM to Trusted List.)

Offering a way to receive a text -- if that's your preference -- might also help engage people who don't or no longer actively use email.

What other ideas do you have for increasing profile manager responsiveness/engagement?

Comments

Are you talking about text as in SMS or text as on some type of social app?

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I was thinking SMS but I suppose other options would also be great.  What would "on some sort of social app" look like? Do you mean Messenger or Hangouts? If the latter, I've got to think the sender has to be another human.  Right? Or wrong?

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These messages also appear in the Family Activity Feed. Perhaps stress the importance of collaboration and note that you can and should watch this and other things on your Navigation Home Page.

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I also see that there is nothing on the help page for profile managers that stress the need / responsibility to respond to comments / PMs / g2g's associated with the profiles they manage.

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Have the "feeling" the world is divided tween those who "text" and those who "email" and as for "lack of responsiveness" what's the percentage? There's maybe 3000 or so actives (last I heard) out of 657,000+ touted to PM.

What sort of messages are being ignored? The ones posted on the profile page -- a profile page -- or sent by private message? I don't think anyone cruises g2g to see if anyone else has posted a message about one of their profiles

I don't think there's a problem about responsiveness.

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Susan,

In the PGM project, we frequently post comments on profiles asking for profile manager feedback about a specific issue related to the profile-- a change in the last name, a detachment of unproven parents, a conflict about dates or spouses or children. 

Even if the profile manager is otherwise an active wikitreer, we frequently (like 90% of the time) do not receive a response, and these comments ARE sent as an email to the profile manager. (I wish that when a G2G post was added to a profile, it would do the same thing, but I think you only get those through your weekly feed-- and my sense is that few WikiTreers read their feed.)

We find this particularly disheartening because we try very hard not to be a heavy-handed project, but to work with current profile managers whether or not they are project volunteers.

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Ah, Jillaine, so basically the situation as it stands -- this clump of system clogging non-response -- means efforts to open Communication and promote Collaboration means the Initiating PM -- the one who takes this action to make contact is SOL. 

90% qualifies as SOL. After the 2nd contact has failed to elicit a response, the whole is SOL for the one who Initiates the contact. 

Well, okay, so there's a problem that has been in place since 2008 at least and procedures developed to deal the with convolutions thereof (unresponsive; or hostile or resistant or confused) and there is no solution even on the horizon.  

The answer here is that the one who would fix the problem ref the profile is SOL.  

If there is no "law of the land" with well-defined stipulations and penalties written out and applicable to all citizens / subjects, then there is no way to attain the desired goal (a positive and harmoniously responsive PM) in other words. 

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Not sure I follow you at all, Susan. But the reason I posted this originally is because I am hoping we can find a solution-- whether it be improved communications tech options, and/or stronger language on help pages.

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Good, Jillaine, there might well BE tech solutions or there might BE some sort of Requirement about Responding (w/penalty for non-compliance) or there might BE stronger language (I can't imagine what, though)  ... 

Solutions would be appreciated. Since there is no applicable "law of the land with defined penalties for non-compliance" one has to think in terms of incentives that would provoke responses from those heretofore unresponsive PM ... hmm ... 

More bling? There is no requirement to respond is there? With attached penalties? No requirement means it cannot be enforced. Okay that leaves "toasters" and "miracle blenders" and "gift certificates" such other bling ... might seduce a few to respond. 

I will I think sit back and await suggestions. Ought to be interesting. Plotting the seduction of non-responsive PM, oh my goodness. 

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Nowhere in my original post did I suggest penalties or forced compliance.  I would like to see greater encouragement for collaboration on the part of profile managers and if they don't want or don't have the bandwidth to be responsive, perhaps they should consider a different role relative to the profile.

And remember, I'm talking about otherwise active members.

I wonder if the new profile commenting function (that Chris W has promised is just around the corner) will make a difference?

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Well, good luck in finding a way to provoke a response from those who have already demonstrated no particular desire to be responsive. There's no penalty for not responding, and no incentive of sufficient value (in their opinion) to lure them into response.  

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I think it all comes down to commitment to the profiles you care about and not how active you are. It all depends on what motivates you to spend time on WikiTree. Making our feeds live or real time would be very convenient and might even enhance and speed up collaboration when compared to the current feeds that are sometimes as much as several hours behind with e-mail notifications, but even then you will not solicit a response if it is not important enough for the profile manager to respond.

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Louis, thanks for the reply.

FYI, when a comment is posted to a profile that I manage or even that goes through a project account, I receive notification of it immediately.  I have never experienced a delay with profile comments.

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You are most fortunate unlike the rest of the world.

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I think one reason members may ignore notifications related to PGM profiles is that many members seem to have the mistaken perception that when a profile has a project account as a project manager, this means that the project leaders will take personal responsibility for all future development and maintenance of the profile. Members who believe this may see no need for them to look at profile messages and merge requests.

Also, if a member isn't in the habit of looking at their notifications in "real time," extensive discussion may already have occurred by the time they check in...

Answer 1

While it is possible to send SMS through PHP, it does have a few drawbacks - such as cost. There are a few workarounds to pricing, such as doing email to SMS, but that is a bit more complicated.

I think the best solution, at least for those who log in regularly, is to implement an onsite notification system. Note: Wikipedia uses Echo, but we are not on a version of MediaWiki that supports the extension.

Comments

It would be a terrific improvement if our feeds would light up or (!) or some such here on the platform.

Count me in the younger generation (lol) that doesn't use email, it's so inconvenient and cluttered.  I don't want to have to open up another platform to do genealogy communications, I'm here because I like the Wikitree way and I want to be able to come here to see my correspondence, intuitively linked to the profiles we're talking about here.

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Interesting, E. Compton. That would be another way to deal with it-- have a type of "inbox" right here on WikiTree. I use another platform for crafting that has this. The problem with that is that if I don't go onto the platform, I don't know that I have a message waiting for me.

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Jillaine, that is what I referenced with Echo. It is further incorporated as a part of new mediawiki installations, but we would have to have a custom solution for WikiTree.

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Jillaine, I would say that it would be a feature, and not a problem, if a genealogy-related inbox lit up when I visited my genealogy platform, where all the genealogy information I have to share is available, and when I have time and capacity to address incoming genealogy tasks, because that's why I come to this website.  

I agree with RJ that there are a lot of tasks on WikiTree that shouldn't depend on input from any particular person, and by extension, I don't think those tasks should depend on whether or not a particular person responds to communications on non-Wikitree platforms.

But this gets into larger issues around projects and profile management and how editing authority is allocated in our wiki.  

As Steve says, an on-platform notification capability exists on other wikis, and that function would greatly improve my WikiTree experience, and I hope it can be added to the to-do list at some point.

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If you are suggesting some sort of internal messaging system like FamilySearch.org uses (presuming you are familiar with their message system), then I am all for it.

My preference is to have all WikiTree-related communications in-house, rather that via email or other outside means.

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I also strongly endorse the idea of being able to find and interact with all of my WikiTree messages in an interface somewhere on this website. When this is set up, notifications should be sent regarding new messages (on a notification schedule requested by the member -- some people will want instant notifications and others will want to bundle their notifications), and there should be follow-up notifications for requests awaiting a response. Notifications could be sent via email, SMS text, Facebook Messenger, or other methods preferred by the recipient (if technically feasible).

I would not want to add SMS to the communications interfaces that I am currently using for WikiTree because I don't want to be distracted by any more instant communications than I now receive. Currently I receive WikiTree-related emails on two different email accounts (there's a story behind that); I belong to 17 different WikiTree Google Groups (several of which receive daily and weekly activity feeds for a project account); I check G2G on pretty regular basis; and I get lots of G2G notifications.  I get far too many PMs about "Your profile on WikiTree," and I am frustrated that the URLs in PM messages aren't clickable and that when I open a message that includes a non-URL WikiTree ID (such as Smith-134182) from my phone, I often have to wait until I'm on a computer to see what profile is referenced (assuming I can remember which "Your profile on WikiTree" email I need to open once I'm on the computer). And in order to be able to respond to a message sent to one of those Google Groups, my settings for the group need to have been "Notify me for every new message" and I need to reply using Gmail (can't reply from the Group page on the web). If I received the message in digest mode (preferred to reduce distractions) I need to copy the message and the sender's email address into an email interface to send a new email. The mental overhead required to deal with all these communication interfaces is significant. I know that I get more WikiTree communications than most members, but I am sure that members who get less communications than I do could feel overburdened by their WikiTree communications and might lose interest in opening their WikiTree notifications.

A single online interface with private and public areas (I know this is feasible with some PHP forum software packages) would be a great help, and might reduce some members' inclination to ignore WikiTree messages.

Answer 2

Expectations need to be reduced.  WikiTree has far more profiles than it can effectively manage with the effort available.

Many people joined WikiTree just because they could upload large gedcoms without paying subs.  They didn't expect to be at everybody's beck and call.  You don't normally get that with genealogy sites.

And it's a wiki.  Which ought to mean that it doesn't depend on input from anybody in particular.  If something wants doing, somebody else can do it.

If you don't like the terms on which other members operate, what would you have them do instead?  Quit?

Comments

I get that, RJ. But then just be on the Trusted List; don't claim to be a profile manager if you're not going to engage.

Pre-1700 profiles stress collaboration and communications before editing. We are trying to abide by this.

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I don't think collaboration is supposed to mean compulsory involvement.

WikiTree doesn't like orphans.  It considers it desirable that all profiles should have PMs, even though this inevitably means that most of them will be uninvolved.

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That's not really true.  We, the Team at WikiTree, encourage members to orphan profiles if they don't want to manage them. But there are members who don't like the idea of orphaned profiles and so they adopt them.

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RJ, what does collaboration in the context of profile management mean to you? If you manage a profile and someone asks a question on it, you are otherwise active, what does your role as profile manager suggest?

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Since I don't have a control agenda, I'd prefer not to manage profiles.  The only reason I manage some is because if I don't, somebody else will, and like many other members, I shy away from editing profiles managed by other people.

So on the rare occasions that I get a contact about a profile I happen to be temporarily managing, I take that as my cue to get on with whatever I had in mind and then remove myself from the profile and get out of the way.

Answer 3

If I receive an email concerning a profile, I respond to it.  But if someone leaves a message on a profile, I may not see it.  It may be noted on one of the three emails I receive from WikiTree but those don't always get read.  The titles of the 3 emails from WikiTree need to be more clear - I get them mixed up, (which is what), and so sometimes don't bother reading them.  I don't know if there is a possible fix for clarity in titles or not, but thought I'd mention that lack of clarity causes them to be ignored.  Maybe it's my problem and not WT's...

Comments

Hi Janie, thanks for responding.

When a comment is posted on a profile that you manage, you should get an email with a subject header like:

"Comment on Kimble-123 from Jillaine Smith"

What do you think it should say instead that would lead you to click on it and respond?

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Perhaps something like "Comment on (Kimble-123) Joan Kimble (1756-1823) from Jillaine Smith" would be better.

BTW, I'm getting way too many mails titled"Your page on WikiTree", and I think that some more descriptive titles once in a while would be nice.

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A direct email like that I would respond to.  I 'assumed' messages left on a profile got lost in activity emails.  Glad to know that was a wrong assumption.

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The emails with "Your page on WikiTree" is not the fault of the system.  It's the person writing the email not having changed the subject line.  I also see it in a Devon Rootsweb list I belong to, where people reply to a Digest and don't bother changing the subject line.  It's not like it's hard to do, people...

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So curious about the new commenting feature that Chris W has promised is coming soon. Wonder how it will affect all of this?

Answer 4

Back in 1979 or so, when I was nursing my ex-husband through his rehab from paralysis while we were waiting for his next surgery, a 24/7 job (with an hour or two off every morning when my dad took over), someone egged our house.  Here we were, a decent group of humans, one disabled by leukemia, one paralyzed, one (me) overworked.  Every day was a struggle.  I thought that if the egg thrower had known the difficulties it added to our day, or thought of the human beings living in that house instead of seeing the house as a handy place to vandalize, that possibly he or she would have been more empathetic and thrown the eggs in the trash.  If someone doesn't communicate with me right away, I think, "Well, heck, who knows what's going on in their lives?"  Should I throw an egg at them, or just try again later?

Comments

Great reminder, J. Crook.

I should clarify that the experiences that drove me to post the original post is more in the realm of multiple profile managers not responding at all over the course of as much as a year.  And that's despite them being otherwise active on wikitree. So they're working on other things on WikiTree, but not responding to comments left on profiles they manage. That's what I'm struggling with.

Answer 5

Regardless of whether or not SMS is added as a communication mechanism, I think that WikiTree needs to ask all members to supply multiple types of contact information to reduce the chance for members to get lost. Additional contact information could include additional email address(es), phone number(s) for SMS or WhatsApp messages, social media account information (Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, etc.), and possibly even snail mail addresses.

Answer 6

Jillaine says " ... non responsiveness of otherwise active wikitreers to both comments on profiles they manage and g2g questions associated with profiles they manage."

And I'm still stuck with there's no incentive to lure responses nor is there any requirement specific in statement about responding;  and there is not an obvious link between the concept of "collaboration" and the action of "responding to messages and / or g2g discussion about a profile". 

Family Activity Feed shows who has been tinkering with a profile you manage (listed on your Watch List). Even the Home Nav Page shows some of the activity. 

Do I understand this Lack of Response to include clicking on "thank so-and-so for tinkering with this profile on your watch list"? I have to agree that a simple click seems easy enough to perform. 

Jillaine further said (later) these were otherwise "active" PM at WT, of which we have around 3000 (maybe) ... I could point to the number of postings at g2g that do not get responses within 24 hrs and for all I know there may have been 100s which never got a response. But there we are, only a portion of the currently active PM drop into g2g to at least surf what's happening 

I am stuck (I get stuck a lot) with the idea that this is really a non-issue. 

Or if it is REALLY IMPORTANT it needs to be dropped into Policy and Style to be hammered into shape and so something can be written into the Help: and Intro and etc, a FORMAL POLICY STATEMENT making clear that if someone offers to collaborate you need to respond (even if it's nothing more than "No.") since Jillaine is talking RESPONSE(S) -- And BTW, "No." IS a response. 

Anyway, if it is a Real Issue then put it in Policy and Style, they'll stomp it into shape ... otherwise, it is an idea with no future