Can anyone "prove" this royal lineage?

+7 votes
679 views

While these references indicate the relationship with no proof or evidence,

  • https://famouskin.com/family-group.php?name=50566+george+clinton&ahnum=8 cites
  • 1 Roberts, Gary Boyd, The Royal Descents of 600 Immigrants to the American Colonies or the United States, Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Co. (2008), 180.
  • 2 Roberts, Gary Boyd, The Royal Descents of 900 Immigrants to the American Colonies, Quebec, or the United States (2 vols.), Baltimore: Genealogical Publishing Company (2018), 351.

Burkes Peerage, that I usually trust, does not have any children for Henry and Elizabeth Hickman.  

There is a note on the profile that says they went by the name Fynes/Fiennes, but I still cannot find a connection.

WikiTree profile: William Clinton
in Genealogy Help by Robin Lee G2G6 Pilot (869k points)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Clinton,_1st_Earl_of_Lincoln

Name of first Earl was Edward Fiennes de Clinton. "Of Clinton"

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baron_Clinton

This paragraph explains double name

He was succeeded by his son from his second marriage. The fifth Baron fought on the Yorkist side in the Wars of the Roses. He was attainted in 1461 but later restored to his title. The sixth Baron was recognised in 1471 as Lord Clinton and Saye, but was not called to Parliament under either title. He married Elisabeth, daughter of Sir Richard Fiennes, and took Fiennes as an alias, and Clinton and Saye baronies continued to be linked for several generations. The 10th and 11th Barons were called to Parliament as Baron Clinton de Saye.[1]

Sorry Eddie I read your comment the wrong way. But then where is William listed in any way at all then?
The problem with the Wikipedia page for James Clinton, and for his son Charles Clinton is that it they appear to be using really poor secondary sources to cite relationships.  Similarly to what we find in online genealogies, it looks like one secondary source is copying another without any checking the information.

I think the problem isn't just was William a member of the Fiennes-Clinton, Earls of Lincoln but what 'proof' is there that James was the son of William?

From an 'outsiders' point of view it's looking very much like someone has grafted a 'Clinton' genealogy onto the family of the Earls of Lincoln without any primary sources to confirm this.
Dear Miss Robin,

I am going back to my Jewish soldiers now with my dear Gaile  as there is no dissension about them. Perhaps Andrew and John can offer better help. I don't argue with people anymore.

Good luck

I found this record for the Will of William Clinton alias Fines, Captain, late Officer of Dunkirk, Kent and it is meant to be available in Ancestry.com and The Genealogist, but I haven't been able to find it in either of them.

The date of 30 June 1662 doesn't indicate whether this is the date the will was written or the date it was proved?  Based on the army records I also found, I would think it could be the date it was written, before he was shipped off to Tangier?

It would seem to be too early to mention a possible son James, but might mention parents.

Tried to do the sharing thing but can't copy whole url on phone. Search  PCC wills Clinton  prob date 30 june1662

As far as  can read  on a phone its not a will as such but a 'memoranda' that two brothers Major George and Cap William Clinton Alias Fines made a declaration before they were about to embark for a voyage to Barbary. Their estate was to be divided between the survivor and their  their sister Priscilla. She was their lawful executor

The brothers were capt and Lieu when posted to Dunkirk in Aug 1660https://quod.lib.umich.edu/e/eebo/A71355.0001.001/1:1?rgn=div1;view=fulltext

OK I found it, it's actually a joint will from Major George Clinton, alias Fines and his brother Capt William Clinton, alias Fines and both are about to go to Tangiers (named as Barbary).  The will is dated 17 December 1661 and proven 30 June 1662 though I can't tell if one has died or both?

The beneficiary and executrix is their sister I think named Priscilla (though it looks like it is written as Pricsilla) also Clinton alias Fines or Ffines.
Sorry Helen didn't see your comment when I was posting mine.

Sorry to come late to this party. I have been chasing George & William Fiennes-Clinton for a little while & in doing so have come across this lineage. The only offered proof of which, seems to be Dalton's Army lists & a coat of arms. 

The William mentioned in the army lists, I believe, is a son of Francis & Priscilla Fiennes-Clinton (Francis = son of Sir Edward Fiennes-Clinton & grandson of Henry, the 2nd Earl of Lincoln. And also, he was father to Francis, the 6th Earl of Lincoln.) 

George (bap:1636 St Lukes, Chelsea) & William (bap:1638 Threekingham, Lincs.) have been amalgamated by Dalton in his army lists. But George was the Major mentioned; as Helen Ford has shown in her answer; & he can be found a few times in the Calendar of state papers etc.(example: https://archive.org/details/cu31924091770473/page/n181)  

The brothers were sent to Tangier & George was killed in an ambush whilst leading a sally against the Moors on 3rd May 1662 - this has been misattributed to William (because of Dalton's mistake) & also to Nathaniel Fiennes (I don't know why) but I think George should finally be given his due. 

(George also knocked about with a Major Killigrew, & they were both, at one time, under surveillance by Downing as possible anti-royalist agitators. But I haven't been able to ascertain yet if there is a link between this Killigrew & the family the 6th Earl of Lincoln married into.)

As you can see from the army commissions, William seems to still be around after 1662. When peace was signed in Tangier in 1666, the regiment he was in was sent back to England.

The problems with this lineage:

1. I don't believe Charles Clinton claimed to be a grandson of the Earl of Lincoln; this claim seems to have come after his lifetime. 

2: William, the soldier in Dalton's, is not the son of Sir Henry Fynes of Kirkstead. 

2. William, the alleged grandfather of Charles Clinton, was supposedly a Royalist officer, but George & William were in a (former) Parliamentary troop. (I can find no details of a Royalist officer with his name - Fiennes or Clinton.) William was supposedly in France, then Spain, & then Scotland - this does not fit the movements of  this William Fiennes-Clinton. (The troops in Dunkirk were made up of former commonwealth soldiers & a couple of Irish catholic regiments. Which is always a good mix; as you can imagine!)

3. William Clinton's son James was apparently a politician & soldier - I cannot find any details of either of his careers - he also went to London to get his lands back & was refused (or was successful, depending on the account.) Where is the evidence of this? Suits? Petitions? Has anyone found any?

4.  Gov. George (Fiennes)Clinton (Gov. of New York from 1741) - The William & George mentioned in the army lists would have been uncles to Gov. George (Fiennes)Clinton. Apparently, Gov. Fiennes-Clinton recognised the 'distant' relationship between himself & Charles Clinton (I have only seen a letter where he mentions 'Mr Clinton'. I don't know if anyone has found any proof of this assertion.) But Charles's father would have been George Clinton's cousin - so not so distant.  (Also, there is the story that Charles Clinton named his son George after the Governor; but they didn't meet until 9 years after his son George was born.)

5. The coat of arms - it was said that Charles Clinton & Gov George Fiennes-Clinton bore identical coats of arms - I would be surprised at this, as George Fiennes-Clinton's arms had a crescent for difference (as is usual.) The chances of them being identical should be minimal. The only example of the Charles Clinton Arms I could find was the seal of his son George & it is not a good image.

https://archive.org/details/civicancestryofn00wild/page/n89

The arms bring me to the Clinton family of Ulster. The Irish Clinton family were VERY distantly related to the family that became the Earls of Lincoln; some members of the family apparently went to Ireland in the 12th century & crucially they bore similar arms. The Irish Clintons had most of their lands taken away after the rebellion (1641) & one of their number, Thomas (I think), was able to recover some of these lands after the restoration. (Could this be the story that morphed into James Clinton going to London?)  

 There are so many questions unanswered - like why would William drop the name Fiennes when he was obviously using it previously? Why wouldn't any of the English family know of his whereabouts & family? (He was close enough to leave all he had to his sister a few years earlier.)

I do wonder if it hadn't been for the proximity of Governor George Clinton (Fiennes), would Charles Clinton have a different family tree? I  think the Clinton lineage needs a bit of detective work. It seems to be have been accepted with little or no evidence.

Anyone interested in the Irish Clintons should look at these 2 documents (On Jstor - it's free to register & look at 6 documents a month.)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/27727928  - The Clinton family of Louth. (This has an example of one members coat of arms & mentions another, which is remarkably similar to those of the Earls of Lincoln.)

https://www.jstor.org/stable/27728747  - Clinton Records.

My search for William (of the army lists) continues, it may turn out he did go to Ireland, but I am doubtful. 

https

2 Answers

+3 votes

It doesn't prove his lineage or even that he is the father of James Clinton, and husband of Elizabeth Kennedy, but there is a William Clinton alias Fiennes (or Vice Versa) who was an officer in the English Army in the 1660s.

See English army lists and commission registers, 1661-1714, volume 1 on page 68 (and also pages 9, 33 & 38)

by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (627k points)
Looks to be the same information in the book Eddie found...still not "proof", but more contemporary information.
+3 votes

Coming back to this as I was looking at Michael Livesey and his marriage and found the Memoranda of George and William Clinton alias Fines. They name their sister Prisilla. Could she possibly be the Priscilla Clinton who married Willoughby D’Ewes?

Also this may be a clue:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C5424625

Regards,

Ann

by Ann Browning G2G6 Mach 7 (77.3k points)

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