Hereford in Medieval Welsh Geography

+3 votes
189 views

Tudor Trevor, born about 900 was "Lord of Hereford, Whittington, and Both Maelors".  Most of the places associated with him were in Wales and nearby Shropshire (Mercia at the time), in an area bounded by Wrexham in the north, Llangollen in the west, and Oswestry/Whittington in the south.  

Then we have Hereford, which is far to the south.  Since Lordships were substantially "income streams" it's not impossible to be lord of such separated places, but one has to visit to collect the rent, so it raises this question:  In the time of Tudor Trevor, could there have been another place called Hereford which was much closer to the other places associated with him?

WikiTree profile: Tudor Trefor ab Ynyr
in Genealogy Help by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (467k points)

2 Answers

+5 votes
My two pennys worth would be that it is a different Hereford. Miles of Gloucester was the 1st Earl Hereford about the time that Robert Loring was made Bishop. Whether there was a Lord of Hereford before that? Possibly not.

That was 1079 incorrectly reported as 1279 in the Loring Genealogy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_of_Gloucester,_1st_Earl_of_Hereford

Edit 1279 not 1269
by David Loring G2G6 Pilot (129k points)
edited by David Loring
+4 votes

I think I've found an answer, and assuming there was an error, it was an error of genealogy not geography.

Darrell Wolcott in one of his Ancient Wales Studies notes that Tudor Trevor's mother is usually identified as Reingar ferch Lluddocca ap Caradog Freich Fras, earl of Hereford, and that early historians were led to believe that on her account, Tudor Trevor held lands in Hereford.  Wolcott observes, however, that in fact Reingar's grandfather is a different Caradog Freich Fras who lived in about 820 and is found in the pedigree of Heilig ap Glannog, and that she was of a north Wales family, and that Tudor Trevor's lands were all north of the Severn in Cheshire and Shropshire.

So solving a genealogy problem makes the geography problem go away.  It does damage the credibility of numerous historians, however, who have termed Tudor Trevor's heirs for a half dozen or more generations as "Lords of Hereford".  Unless there is other evidence of the heirs having lands in Hereford, these titles are all now suspect, 

by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (467k points)

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