Should we modify the wording on the Purpose of Categories? [closed]

+18 votes
644 views

Following from the previous G2G discussion, we are ready to seek formal approval to change and clarify the wording on Category FAQ, as it relates to the "purpose of categories".

Please read the documentation linked below, and then upvote the answer of your choice, providing any feedback needed to support your vote!

closed as a duplicate of: Changes coming related to categories
in Policy and Style by Steven Harris G2G6 Pilot (757k points)
closed by Steven Harris
I agree 100%
Thanks Sheryl! I hope you voted!

Thank you for the outstanding organization of your thoughts and leadership in the discussion, Steven (and Natalie). And thank you for all the hard work you are doing in the Categorization Project.

I would prefer that we put this on hold while I formulate a round of changes to the help page that are a little more conservative. I think that we could achieve most of what you intend without such a radical change to the purpose of categories.

I am sure others are not interpreting it this way, but the way I read the proposal categories must do all of the following:

  1. organize ongoing research (what if the research is done or on hold?), and
  2. involve other members, and
  3. involve projects, and
  4. have a specific genealogical purpose (which could be defined very narrowly or very broadly).

Hi Chris, I look forward to seeing what changes you have in mind! Anything we can do set clear (or clearer) boundaries is welcomed.

As a slight tweak to what you posted, I think the intent would be more in line with:

  • organize ongoing research, and
  • involve other members or projects, and
  • have a specific genealogical purpose.

"...have a specific genealogical purpose (which could be defined very narrowly or very broadly)"
Agreed, and this something we tried to address. Without any qualification to what this means, any user could claim that it has a genealogical benefit to them, and it would need to be supported (even if it should really be a personal category) or should not even exist at all in the same format (Killed by Indians).

After discussions with Steven and Natalie, here's the current state of our thinking: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/797838/changes-coming-related-to-categories

Please see that discussion and comment there. Thanks!

2 Answers

+32 votes
I support the change to the Purpose of Categories!
by Steven Harris G2G6 Pilot (757k points)
Definitely support. Some of the odd categories are more Wikipedia than Wikitree and should stay there.

I'd re-order the bullets at the top so that the following comes first.

  • help to group profiles related to a specific genealogical purpose
Definitely support, thank you Steven and Natalie for all your hard work in Categorisation, I agree with Ros that what not to use them for be prominent! Lots of weird categories out there!
Big yes from me. Too many silly categories that serve no purpose and also too many that are a hodgepodge of styles so people get confused and make duplicated categories. Current issue seems to be around ships
"Red headed sailors etc" might at least get some profiles. "Birds" is a category that puzzles me on a genealogical site.
Thank you Steven the proposal has my vote.

danny in canberra

Steven temporarily closed this discussion yesterday after my comment above, but I wanted to post a few words of explanation here so that those of you who have voted for the proposal know what's going on.

I made a mistake when I added these two sentences to the Category FAQ in August: "Categories should not be used primarily as a recognition tool when there is little other genealogical benefit to placing the profile in a group. For this purpose, see Profile Stickers."

This wording implies that categories must have a genealogical benefit. We never established this rule. It's inconsistent with what we say about categories in other places, so it has caused a lot of confusion. I apologize for it.

A big thank-you to Steven and Natalie and the other Categorization Project members who have struggled to deal with the confusion and who are now trying to clear it up.

For now I have edited the line to say: "Categories should not be used primarily as a recognition tool when there is little other benefit to placing the profile in a group. For this purpose, see Profile Stickers."

In other words, I changed "genealogical benefit" to just "benefit."

It might not seem like a radical step for us to require that all categories have benefits for our genealogical collaboration. After all, we often say that WikiTree is for genealogy collaboration. Most of our features, functions, and policies are designed to facilitate it.

However, our collaboration has a higher purpose. The tree we are growing is meant to benefit others, now and in the future. We want it to be of value to our non-genealogist family members, to our future descendants, to non-wiki genealogists, historians and researchers, etc.

So, are categories one of those features that are just for facilitating our collaboration, or do they have a role in the higher purpose of WikiTree?

I believe that they do have a broader role. They're not just a tool that we use. They are part of the content that we grow, or at least part of what makes that content easier to find and use. Obviously, they facilitate browsing. Less obviously, they help Google and other search engines "understand" a page. This helps our profiles appear in more searches.

We might also develop more internal tools that utilize them. Categories could someday help a descendant find all his ancestors who played baseball, or who worked on train. Or help some epidemiological researcher find people who lived in a certain area and died of a certain disease. Sports, occupations, and causes of death may not be directly relevant to any current genealogy collaboration, but they can add value for others.

Still, I do appreciate that broad usage of categories has caused problems in our community. It could be that even though they have technical functions and benefits that go beyond our community, our community cannot support these usages. We can't do everything. In the end, we may need to decide that they should only be used for genealogy collaboration.

I just want to make sure that we have considered other ways to lighten their burden. The team and I will work with Steven, Natalie and other Categorization Project members to formulate some technical changes that could help, and we will propose some alternative policy changes.

I’m not trying to be smart here, Chris, but since 1932, about 1.5 million American men and women received the Purple Heart. With a definition as broad as yours, are we really willing have a category this large? Even if broken down by wars or other actions, there would still be some very large categories. And this is just one medal. There are other medal categories that could be just as large (or larger). M&W and categorisation would be overwhelmed. 

I’m just trying to get a handle on this.

Pip, I understand and have the same problem with the Médaille Militaire. I have not looked at the figures, but an example will do. What is the benefit of placing my French peasant great-uncle, or my great-grandfather the butcher (both received the Médaille Militaire, the latter posthumously) in the same category as Dwight Eisenhower or Douglas MacArthur. They do not have anything in common apart from that decoration. (but let's not continue the discussion on this closed thread).

And I will continue to contend that there is no benefit in having the empty category Collars of the Order of the Queen of Sheba, which is (as I understand it) for one of the several different pieces of ornamentation (specifically, a necklace) that might have been given to one or more people who received the ceremonial recognition of Order of the Queen of Sheba from the Emperor of Ethiopia. WikiTree's category description pages contain vastly more information about the Order of the Queen of Sheba than can be found in the corresponding Wikipedia article.

And I've never met a person who I would categorize as a necklace.

+4 votes

I do not support the change to the Purpose of Categories... (please comment your views below).

by Steven Harris G2G6 Pilot (757k points)

I am not sure why this has negative votes, but the process is to upvote this answer if you do not agree with this change. 

Somebody doesn’t like you, Steven. devil

I will change my mind but for now I am a no because of the big problem with Austrailia
What problem in Australia?
I was about to ask the same thing!
My guess is the ships issue.
Ships is a non-issue. That wasn't a categorization project task, and was not centered around or involved with this proposal. In either case, we can wait to see what Chris has in mind!
Well, it was the only "problem" I could think of with Aus on G2G.
I am sorry, did not mean to be cryptic, yes the ships/shipping thing, which I hope can be fixed - seemed messed up - I probably should not comment right now - have the influenza and am kind of out of it - so sorry my comment was not really relavant

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