is this considered a Source or should it have Unsourced template?

Question

Is ''Xyz births, deaths and marriages." considered a source? No link, just those words. My opinion: No.

Should it have an Unsourced template? My opinion: Yes.

What is the answer? I have marked some of these Unsourced|Xyz in the past, and have seen someone has found the actual record and added the details. I'm coming accross lots of them (same manager) while correcting data doctor errors.

Comments

I have marked some of these Unsourced|Xyz in the past, and have seen someone has found the actual record and added the details. I'm coming accross lots of them (same manager) while correcting data doctor errors.

asked by Margaret Haining

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I was working on fixing some profiles under the "Needs (blah) Record" for Queensland, under the Australia Project's page (because I needed a break from what I had been doing and wanted to do something other than be a nuisance on G2G) and came a cross a number of such profiles (xyz bdm) where you had place the relevant needs record category.  (I think I cleared all the needs records for births, except for two (one is one of my managed profiles and she is a pod person, the other I left a note on the profile detailing where I looked (I did manage to add marriage and death references to her, though) my yesterday and the day before.  So I started on needs death record ones.  On one I managed to give a reasonable biography, sourced. because I couldn't just leave it with "bare bones" when I had the information in the notes I'd made as I went along).)  A decent number of them were managed by one person .. all "batches" of a single family name (i.e. there were a couple of or so different families, but they seemed to run in batches of the particular family name).

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Disclaimer: I am neither a Data Doctor, nor a Sourcerer, so I hope I'm not stepping on any toes, just to feel as though I'm contributing something useful.

(I really did need a break from trying to find the father of one of my collaterals just so I could add a sibling to an existing profile and the online Queensland BDM and I are old friends!)

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Great job Melanie, that's the the point of adding these needs categories and unsourced template, I remember a while back I did add those needs categories but have been recently doing the unsourced template as they need all three usually. As you say, there are lots from this manager, and they keep creating them, despite messages. Lots more to both fix the data errors and add unsourced .

You might not be a "Sourcerer" but sounds like you are doing a super job of sourcing! Great work and thank you for doing it.

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Thanks for the kind words.  I do worry that I'm stepping on toes, or doing something that may have been slotted for one of the sprints, or "a-thons".

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I did leave a couple of profiles with the gedcom stuff still there (because I don't know how to fix it, and didn't think some active PM's profiles were the best places to learn), so just added the source I had for birth or death and left the rest alone.  (I'm now down to 5 profiles on the "needs death record" page.)

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Hey Melanie, no way are you stepping on toes, that's the purpose of these maintenance categories so anyone can find profiles that need particular things in a particular location, great system, otherwise these profiles would just sit and may never get sources added to them. Doing a great job! The sprints and source a thons are concentrated attacks on the unsourced, but anyone can do them anytime. I'm fixing data errors and you're finding sources, what a productive Sunday arvo we are having!   

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Oh, hey, it's just barely turned Sunday where I am. 

Just imagine how much more productive I could be if I were ahead of myself! 

What do I do when I find a profile I can add sources to, but there is no birth record and the place of birth is not known?  Should I stick a category on it, or just leave it?  (I ask because I just added marriage and death details to a profile, but could not find a birth record in Qld or NSW.  Should I have said that under a research header?  Yesterday or the day before I actually went looking in Scotland (because of the name), found the info and that's the one I did a full-ish profile for, including research notes to explain where I'd been and what I'd found.)

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Ha Ha, that means you'll be ahead of me, you still have all Sunday to go, my Sunday is nearly over! Does that mean you're burning the midnight oil??

On the question of your profile, I reckon the more "breadcrumbs" you can leave, in the way of maintenance categories and research notes, the better. I've put Needs categories on some of mine that I have no idea where or when they were born, but someone one day may find something. Puting in research notes where you've looked saves others going over the same ground.

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Semi-insomnia keeps me going at extremely odd hours.  I mostly live on Aussie time, while not actually being IN Aus. 

(Makes for great communication with my kids, but lousy communication with my in-laws.)

Ok, next time I'll make sure to add a research section.  If I can remember which profile I did a search on, I'll go back and add it there as well.

Answer 1

First, This subject has already been discussed, please see

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/644109/need-a-definitive-answer-on-what-is-unsourced

And it really depends on whether the profile is Pre-1700 or not.

If the profile is NOT Pre-1700, as long as the person indicates in some manner where they got their information, the profile is sourced and no template should be added that indicates that it is unsourced.   You can add other maintenance categories.

PS I don't make the rules, I just follow the rules.

Answer 2

Is the manager still active? If not a quick look on familysearch.org should give at least one source and {{unsourced}} won’t be necessary.

Answer 3

I mark them unsourced.

The idea behind sourcing is to make sure that the next genealogist can find the source.  To say -- "Well, I found it in the 1850 census in New York," etc., really isn't giving enough information.  It's a clue, but what if the last name is Smith or Jones?  The source doesn't really give enough information without having to do the work all over again.

Marking something as unsourced with a location gives that profile a little edge.  It makes the list of Unsourced in a particular location where a Sourcerer or other wonderful WikiTreer can find the profile and work on it.

My favorite non-source is just a dot '''.'''

Comments

Kathy, my thinking too, I always add the location/s to the unsourced template, I would imagine Sourceres like to work in particular locations, especially when looking up BDM registries.

In this circumstance I don't see the unsourced template as somthing, derogatory, but as means for a sourcerer to locate the actual source, (if it exists). It's not evident that the record does exist, not even the registration number, which I think would be a minimum to someone else locating the record.

Answer 4

With some BMD sites (eg official cert-ordering sites), you enter a name etc in a form and the info comes back as Search Results, but you don't get a permanent URL that you can use to save the search results.  Anybody else will just have to do the search.

Ideally of course you'd send for the cert, but they cost money.  So many people make do with the search results, and they don't go far wrong.

So yes, I'd say a cert-ordering site is a source if it gives useful information.  There might not be much that can be done to improve the citations.  Personally I like citations as succinct as possible, I'm not in favour of surplus verbiage that doesn't add anything.

Comments

The point is the entire "source" says "(state name) births, deaths & marriages".  That's it.  Not a registration number, nothing. 

I do mostly Australian BDM searches .. and most of those are either New South Wales or Queensland.  Queensland gives you a (permanent) link that can be used as reference.  NSW gives you the registration number.  It's not that difficult to link to https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/births

https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/marriages

or https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/deaths  and add the Reg #.  Someone coming along later can use the Reg # to search for the record, rather than going through the last name, first name, date from date to routine.  As an example: NSW Births 3564/1875

For Queensland, if I give you this https://www.familyhistory.bdm.qld.gov.au/details/df46ea17c884aa5ba9b23562b5cb3878f96ab426f14159d0ee2b4482fa63657d you should be able to click that and be taken to the (online) record itself, not just the index.

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Gosh. The list of births including me is online for free (because I'm over 70).
https://sok.riksarkivet.se/bildvisning/A0041495_00094

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I'm over 70

commented by Eva Ekeblad

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Oh, nonsense! 

Going by your profile pic you're one of those eternally 21 or under! 

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In that case you can construct your own citation, something like :

PLATTS, WILLIAM, Mother's Maiden Surname: SMITH, GRO Reference: 1850  J Quarter in TAMWORTH UNION,  Volume 16  Page 596, citing General Register Office, Southport, England. GRO Online:  https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp

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But what is the point of adding the link?  It only goes to a search page. 

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But what is the point of adding the link?  It only goes to a search page. 

commented by Ros Haywood

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Because that makes it easier for the next querent to look for the registration details you provided.  (I always add the link for that reason; given how untrusting some people are, preferring to "check for themselves" and all.) 

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One of the challenges in adding a link to BDM sites is whether they've made any commitment on their websites to maintain the URL, so a specific record URL may break when they reorganise their website.

Having "XYZ BDM Births" is better than nothing, but it still counts as unsourced IMO.

I'm slowing improving my own sourcing by using an abridged citation along the lines of XYZ BDM Births - (+ copy/paste of the relevant search result with semi-colon & colon delimiters)

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Sometimes the URLs are temporary - they seem to work, at the time, but they expire.

But we're told where the info came from.  That means the profile isn't Unsourced.

As it happens, we can easily go there and find it.  That's a bonus.

I like direct links.  It bugs me when people link to a book, where they could link to the page.  It bugs me when people link to a page on ThePeerage.com, when they could link to the actual entry on the page.

But I don't hassle people about it.  I just put the link in.

You don't have to give a perfect citation just to avoid being Unsourced.