Winesses in Quaker marriages

+8 votes
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I've been looking at and documenting an early Quaker community in Lincolnshire in the years 1654-1664.  There are a number of marriages which are witnessed by members of the community present at the event.  Were there rules as to who could be a witness?  There are women there (shock horror - a radical concept for 17th Century England), signing in their own right.  But no wives that I can see, or not when their husbands are present.  Widows and unmarried younger women appear, but it seems that when the husband is present he signs for the family.  Was this a rule or perhaps just the custom in Lincolnshire?
in Genealogy Help by Stephen Trueblood G2G6 Mach 7 (76.3k points)

5 Answers

+4 votes
 
Best answer
First, I should say that I don't know the answer to your question, but the 1654-1664 period is very early in the history of Quakerism, so traditions and norms were probably still forming regarding issues such as the formalisms of marriage certificates. However, women played remarkably prominent roles in Quaker leadership and governance from the very beginning -- in fact, if I'm not mistaken I believe Margaret Fell actually originated many of the Quaker patterns of governance, and women were widely considered to be the co-equals of men, at least in spiritual and religious matters. In fact, along with George Fox (who eventually became her husband after she was widowed), Fell is sometimes considered to be a co-founder of Quakerism. Thus, what surprises me is not that women were co-signatories with men but that you say it appears that married women were not.  The marriage certificates I have seen from not much later than that (1670s) included women in approximately co-equal numbers with men among the witnesses, and clearly included wives, widows, unmarried women and even youth of both sexes (although women at that stage often signed in a separate section rather than alongside their husbands and families as seems to have become the norm later on). In any case, I would be profoundly surprised if there were any formalized norm excluding the witnessing of marriages by women of any status.

Assuming your observation of the Lincolnshire certificates is accurate, I wonder if the lack of signatures of married women from that early period may simply reflect lack of access to education and therefore literacy among women of that generation? Quakers of later generations were quite serious about education and making it available to girls as well as boys, but these would have been first generation Quakers.  At that early stage (1650's and early 60's) they may have been just beginning to organize their own education system, and thus I would guess that literacy (or lack thereof) for mature women of that era may well have depended on the norms of wider society during their pre-Quaker upbringing. However, this hypothesis does not seem consistent with your observation that widows often signed in their own names, so I guess the bottom line is that I really don't know. Have you compiled enough certificates to really be quite sure that married women did not sign? Are you sure that it is not merely a fluke of a couple marriages or an idiosyncrasy of one or two meetings?
by Allen McGrew G2G6 Mach 1 (17.5k points)
selected by Stephen Trueblood
First thing I have to emphasize is that this is not quick.  I am trying to map the first community of Quakers in Lincolnshire, centered around the village of Beckingham.  As you wrote, this is very early in the Quaker journey.  I am slowly mapping in all the members and establishing their relationships and parentage. It doesn't help that the Commonwealth period in England (1649-1660) is a black hole as far as parish record keeping is concerned: some did keep some records, many didn't.  And the Quaker obsession with record keeping doesn't kick in till the end of the period I am looking at.  It also does not help that the villagers keep using the same given names: is it Mary Parker the mother or the sister or the first cousin?

That said, I have now found later weddings where both the wife and the husband are definitely witnessing, so perhaps it was just a coincidence that the first ones seemed to not have it.  It is also noticeable that the first wedding, in 1657, is witnessed only by married men, whereas by 1664 all adults present seem to be listed as witnesses; the group rules are evolving.  Less than a quarter actually sign, the rest are listed by the scribe.

It will take me another fortnight to finish the mission but the ongoing work lies here:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Beckingham_Quakers
+9 votes
You did not have to be a member to be a witness.  In the US in the 1730s at the Kennett Meeting House women were allowed to sit and speak at governing meetings.
by Living Barnes G2G6 Mach 3 (34.4k points)
Women from outside the group?  I realize that women could sit on the discipline group (I have ancestors who were told off regularly).  I am just wondering why the women I come across seem to be widows or unmarried.
My married 5th great grandmother asked and was allowed to sit in and participate in church governing meeting.
+6 votes
Probably because it was a quasi-legal proceeding, and you don't seem to see married women being witnesses in other contexts either.
by Living Horace G2G6 Pilot (637k points)
+6 votes
These marriages are interesting as I had assumed they were common law only, but apparently an early court decided that they were valid - long before other dissenters were able to marry any where but the parish church.
by anonymous G2G6 Pilot (281k points)
Martin, does this court decision predate the Act of Toleration?
+5 votes
Stephen, in my Quaker family records there are many cases (including early English monthly meetings) where both husband and wife sign as witnesses. In some cases the wife is signing with her maiden name and not her married name. I also see wives signing with maiden name in some of the earliest Chuckatuck marriage records but it is not consistent.

I have not researched this for early English records but once in the colonies there are ever increasing numbers of women ministers in the Quaker meetings. There are literally dozens of women as Quaker ministers in my Bond (and allied) family line starting quite early.

I wonder about the comment elsewhere of literacy having something to do with witness signatures. In many, many marriage records the "signatures" of witnesses are often all in the hands of one or two clerks rather than the actual witnesses.
by T Stanton G2G6 Pilot (382k points)

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