Can we dispense with the Zodiac categories? [closed]

+30 votes
637 views
Everyone has a Western zodiac sign. It's directly derived from the date of birth, which already has a metadata field. There would seem to be no reason to apply this category except perhaps self-applied to genealogist member profiles by persons for whom it is significant.

If there were sufficient interest it should be possible to display or query profiles based on Zodiac automatically based on the birthdate via a software solution rather than peppering millions of profiles with manually-applied zodiac categories.

Then there's the little matter of someone having "Cancer" without qualification as a category being semantically ambiguous with the much more common meaning of a malignant disease, and the dual use of the same category for both purposes (e.g. under Causes of Death). It was removed as a subcategory of Causes of Death, yet it has been used both ways.

See e.g. [[Baker-32327]]. She died of cancer, and her sign is Cancer. What is the meaning of the category?

Edit: We do have the Cancers category for causes of death, so there is no reason for mistake per se, but it still seems improper to apply as a category a zodiac sign to a deceased or living person who has no significant association with their sign. Certainly, there are people from cultures which do not use Western astrology and/or have their own forms of astrology, and others who have philosophical or religious objections to astrology, where at the very least this would give their sign undue weight.
WikiTree profile: George Bush
closed with the note: This is resolved.
in Policy and Style by Nathan Kennedy G2G6 Mach 3 (39.5k points)
closed by Eowyn Walker
This is the first time I've seen this.  Seems a trivialization of categories.
I agree. Look at this one:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Eisenhower-1

What is the point of having "Libra" in there?
We know that Venus influenced his presidential decision-making. (joking!!)
I agree, mostly because no one has a single zodiac sign. . . each person has 12.  There are 12 planets that supposedly affect the earth's energy field.  Each individual human, then, has 12 zodiac signs. . . one under each of these 12 planets.  Therefore, no 2 humans have exactly the same astrological make-up.

So, categorizing a person under a zodiac sign has no genealogical purpose and it's astrologically inaccurate.
These categories were discussed in 2016 in https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/316764/have-we-gone-overboard-with-categories when it was said that we needed consensus on the topic. I'm glad that we finally might be reaching consensus.
I haven't seen a single post saying that we should retain the zodiac categories, so I'd say we have consensus.
Looks like they are gone! Hooray!

Thanks to whoever went ahead and pushed the button.

4 Answers

+29 votes
 
Best answer
In discussions within the Categorization Project, the Zodiac Categories are known and sometimes used as an illustration of "here's a category of no known genealogical value which we allow to exist because a couple of people like it and not many people use it and therefore it does no harm."

But as the emphasis on placing categories on profiles increases, the existence of Zodiac categories can mislead people into thinking that they OUGHT to place Zodiac categories on profiles.  If we really wanted that, an editbot could place a Zodiac category on every single WikiTree profile with a complete birth date!  What a useless nightmare that would be.  

There are certainly individuals living and dead who believed in Zodiac signs and their belief was an important part of their life.  That information belongs in their biography.

Given this, I would add my voice that it is time to delete the Zodiac Categories.  The purpose of categories is to group profiles for some useful purpose, and I'm not convinced that any useful purpose has been found in grouping my profile with all the other Pisces in the world!
by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (463k points)
selected by Jochen Oberreiter
I heartily agree. I was looking through the categories to check out profiles. THey're mostly attached to folks with red privacy, which I was happy about. I did find several on people who have passed, but no mention of any beliefs in the bios; they simply fit due to dates.

I also see the use of "This Day In History" in many of them. Technically, these can be used on any person who has lived, but, to me, TDIH should be reserved for notable folks, as when you see TDIH in the newspaper.  I know, I'm just a grumpy old person. tee hee.
Deleting the categories altogether would be the boldest move, but given the evolving consensus here I think it is time to start removing these categories from profiles where they don’t belong (e.g. almost all nongenealogist/family user profiles).
I agree about This Day in History - I have used it for Gaspard de Coligny (St Bartholomew's Day massacre) and for two victims (not notable) of the Oradour-sur-Glane massacre during WW2. i.e., for people who were part of an event of historical significance not otherwise categorized. It's no use categorizing people for the day they died or were born, the dates are already in the data fields!
At the minimum, should we draft some text to put at the top of the "zodiac" and "this day in history" to make clear that zodiac categories should only be used on personal profiles and direct family members, not historical persons; and conversely that "TDIH" categories should only be used for events of historical significance (not of personal importance).

I mean, otherwise TDIH becomes something like the category "grandfather".
That is a very good suggestion, Brad.
I was sitting here trying to think of a reason why the Zodiac category should be retained on George Bush's profile.  I would say that if being associated with a particular Zodiac sign was known to be important to him, perhaps so.  In his case I don't think we have any evidence of that  

I am in favor of removing the Zodiac category from his profile.
David: Yes.
It seems to me that these categorlries should be eliminated. In their place, zodiac stickers could be created for those who want them on family member profiles, and zodiac stickers would not be used on profiles of notables -- except notable astrologers.
+28 votes
I agree, we need to stick to all things genealogy!! Not everyone believes in zodiac signs... like religious beliefs, they are debatable,  just saying!!
by Dorothy Barry G2G Astronaut (2.7m points)
+14 votes
I am ALL FOR THIS. Zodiac signs mean nothing, though reading the horoscopes may be interesting for some.

I believe these should be personal categories. I checked Cancer and it has 702 profiles attached. So, this is a huge category. I'm waiting for the breakdown "England, Cancer," "United States, Cancer," etc. I would never assign this to any ancestor nor to anyone who has passed away, as they may not have believed in such things. To me, it would be like adding "Pizza Lover" to someone born in 1640. How would I know this unless it was quoted in a journal or some document?
by Natalie Trott G2G Astronaut (1.4m points)
edited by Natalie Trott
Of course you'd know.  Everybody loves pizza.
hahaha!
+7 votes
LOL, somebody actually created those?  So did they also create the Chinese zodiac categories?  In one I am Capricorn, in the other Horse.  Take your pick.  Stubborn in any case.  :D  Yes, remove the categories, a joke is all well and good, but categories are supposed to serve some purpose in grouping people.  Grouping the population of the planet into 12 categories only is ridiculous and useless.
by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (663k points)

Yes, there are still ~6000 profiles in these categories, specifically still including President George W. Bush, despite the unanimous consensus here that this is inappropriate and useless when I posted this one month ago.

Not to worry, in two days his profile will be entirely unlisted per the GDPR requirements, and the U.S. President's all-important European privacy rights will be protected. He'll still be helpfully categorized as Cancer, but nobody except half a dozen profile managers will know.

lol get somebody to send a bot to remove the categories everywhere, shouldn't be in existence.
The category Cancer has been removed from the profile of George W Bush
@Nathan. An example of the stupidity of the way GDPR is being applied everywhere, not specifically WikiTree.

The President, or ex President is a historical figure with publicly available information just like the Queen of England or a film star.

There is absolutely NO reason to make his profile unlisted.

Sheer madness!
this is a measure to protect wikitree from lawsuits etc.  As time goes by and each country actually makes legislation to fit the GDPR, we'll be able to see what should in fact be done about public figures.  My own prime minister is among my remote cousins and this thing hides him too.  Wonder how it's affecting relationship finder.  My mother is still alive, so got put in with the rest also.

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