Norway to US (or Canada) immigrant Brick Wall

Question

I have a brickwall ancestor from Norway named Nels Nelson [Nelson-10966]. I do have some information about his wife, Anna Rasmusdatter Sæten.

I found Anna at age 1, on the 1865 census in Norway (https://digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038275002500 ) and also found her listed, age 22, unmarried, on the "Allan Linien" ship that left from Bergen, Norway on 5/9/1887 (which might mean September 5, 1887 -- I'm not sure). I don't know where it landed in the US or Canada. (https://www.digitalarkivet.no/view/8/pe00000000678388),

Her husband, Nels Nelson, only shows up on one record where I can be sure it is him: the 1895 Minnesota state  census: https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-69P9-NTC?cc=1503031&wc=M6GC-XW1%3A65687301%2C65938301

He had been in Rock Dell, Olmsted County, Minnesota for 4 years 6 months when the census was taken. He is listed as a dry goods merchant, born in Norway. He was born about 1860.

Unfortunately there seem to have been quite a few Nels and Anna Nelsons in Minnesota (and everywhere else).  Anna shows up next in 1900, committed to a mental institution in Rochester, Minnesota, where she remained until her death.  Nels apparently abandoned his children, and some family members believe he returned to Norway at some point.  They didn't know if he divorced Anna.

To make a long story shorter, I am hoping to learn where Anna landed in 1887 or where she was until 1895 when she showed up on the Minnesota census, It might help me find some sort of documents to distinguish Nels Nelson from the hundreds of Nels Nelsons who show up everywhere I look. "Nelsen" would be a more typical Norwegian spelling (or Nilssen), but all I have is the one census spelling, and that fact that the descendants used "Nelson". She must have met Nels in the U.S.

Is there a way to track down where Anna Rasmusdatter (from the Sogn og Fjordane farm called Sæten) landed in 1887?  Or, a very long shot: figure out when and where Nels came to the US or prove went back to Norway -- if that actually happened?

One last clue:  Their oldest son, Selmer Nelson (who was 5 on the 1895 census) put his birth location as Forest River, North Dakota, USA. The family should have been there around 1890 if that's the case -- but I can't find them. (There was a different Nels Nelson's grave there.)

Any ideas or help with finding disembarking passengers, immigration documents or something similar that might help me learn more?

Thanks, Reba

 

 

Answer 1

My Nelsons usually showed up as Nilsen or Nielsen in Norway. I don't think I've seen many Nelsens.

Is this Selmer? https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MWBF-WRJ

Comments

Jamie, Thank you for responding.  I believe that IS my Selmer Nelson.  I found that record yesterday, but then I wasn't sure what to make of an Uncle with the surname Hansen. There were a few other clues I could have mentioned originally -- Anna's sister Ellen, who immigrated in 1879 and lived in Grand Forks (I forgot which one -- one is in North Dakota and the other in Minnesota -- one of those cities split by a state border.)  I was afraid if I went on too long nobody would be willing to read my post at all.

I should have said that the "en" ending was probably more typical in Norway than the "on". I don't have a lot of insight into the other spellings.

By the way, I have you to thank (or blame ;-) ) for getting me back to trying to break down this brick wall.  I had developed a defeatist attitude and I don't know when I was ever going to get around to it.  (I'm talking about your Brick Wall app).  

Thank you again!  Reba

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My brickwall app got me to look at one of my brick walls again and I was able to back another generation. Which of course created 4 more brick walls. But my total known % went up.

I'm assuming that Rosy Hansen is the actual relative. So possibly Rosy Nelson / Nilsdotter or maybe Rosy Rasmusdotter / Saeten.

I know nobody likes this answer, but sometimes to figure out which Nels Nelson is yours you have to research all possible Nels and eliminate them one by one. WikiTree is great for this because once you eliminate one the research doesn't go to waste and you can mark them as rejected matches.

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Jamie,

I have been known to try frustrating tasks such as finding all of the Nels Nelsons and making ropes of sand.... I'm not against that (not totally).  I considered searching all of Norway on the Norway Digital Archive site for every Nels Nelson (or Nils Nilssen etc. ) who was born around 1860, and then trying to narrow it down to the ones who emigrated from Norway.  

I haven't learned how to control my searches there, though.  Someone advised me to broaden my searches since that search engine is too sensitive, but I haven't figured out a sensible way to do that and not get every other name in Norway throughout history in my results.

In the US, I'll have to think for a while about how to rule any Nels Nelsons out.  If I could locate just ONE of the children's birth records, if might help -- but I haven't found any.  Maybe there are church records somewhere in Minnesota or North Dakota I haven't found.

I have located one Nels who is about the right age and who showed up as a bachelor (maybe in South Dakota?) after 1895. (I can't recall the specifics.)  I just didn't know how to rule him out OR in.  I also located several who were married, but didn't know if that actually ruled them out. (I know, I need to dig further.)  

Did he go back to Norway?  I'm hoping to find a way to locate Norwegians returning to Norway.  Maybe there weren't as many going that direction. (I'll start taking notes about these possible Nels Nelsons, and at least, as you said, organize and start eliminating some.)

I'll check on that Rosy Hansen possibility. Even if she connects to Anna instead of Nels, it would help to flesh out the family.

I truly do appreciate your ideas.

Congratulations on YOUR brick wall progress!

Reba

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Well searching in Norway would be crazy without a more specific place in Norway. But maybe in Minnesota.

If you haven't already I think I'm going to look into the Hansens. It looks like Rosa's maiden name (or name from a first marriage?) is Seversen, so hmmm. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2M5-473G

Have you looked at the unindexed records at FamilySearch? https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/results?count=75&placeId=201571&query=%2Bplace%3A%22United%20States%2C%20Minnesota%2C%20Olmsted%22%20%2Bavailability%3AOnline

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I think you may be trying some tricks I don't know about.  I did check the 1875 census for the Rasmusses, and didn't see any Rosy or Rose type names in Anna's family. And I just went back to see if there were Severs or Seversdatters.  I skimmed, but I don't think so.

I don't know how you're coming up with info like Seversen so quickly, but thank you!  I haven't tried the unindexed search... in fact, I'm not sure I know what that means, but I'll follow your link and try to keep up  I want to learn all of the good search tactics on FamilySearch.  I'm going to check out the links you offered now.  

Thank you, Jamie!  Did I mention that you're a wonderful person?

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Also, I just looked at the marriage of the Hansens, and they were married in the same county (Olmsted) in Minnesota that Anna's daughter Serina was born in.  Just years earlier.  And Rosy is about 5 years older than Anna.  

I might look through those marriage records for dates after 1887 (when she immigrated) to see if I spot any marriages that look like the names are close to Anna and Nels Nelsen's names.  I think my ancestors thought Anna's name was either Sethen or Saten or Sethern, so maybe she'll show up with a name like that.

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Oooo

Find a grave for Martin Hanson said his wife's name was Ragna...something

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FDDR-D84

her father is Severt Nelson.

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I found her birth record: https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/255/pd00000000959648

I'll look for Nils

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Wow!  Just Wow!  I sense wall demolition coming!  I'm going to follow your trail.

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parents married 1847 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/327/pv00000000841787

original: https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8395/152

Syver's WT profile: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Nilsen-726

still haven't found Nels though.

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found a Niels born to these parents in 1860:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/8395/37

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You are a genius and a hero and a star!  My husband thinks I should go to bed even though the wall demolition isn't total.  I can't thank you enough. I'll bet I can kick the rest of these bricks out of the way now.

Reba

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I'm on a roll so I'm going to keep digging.

I found Nels living either with or next to the Hansons in 1905 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SP3N-KWT

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So the 1865 Census for this family is here...

https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/census/person/pf01038274003679

Great sleuthing Jamie Nelson!

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Nils mad a number of trips back and forth... All these from Emigrants from Bergen protocals.

Name Birth date - Place of birth - Position/marital status Domicile Event date

Nils Sivertsen Høialmen

(male) 1859 Indvigen g Farmer Handelsmand Olden i Indvigen 1900-07-04

Nils Sivertsen Høialmen

(male) 1860 Indviken ug Amerika 1887-05-11

Nils Sivertsen Høialmen

(male) 1860 Indvigen ugift Minnesota 1884-05-16

Nils Sivertsen Høialmen

(male) 1860 Indvigen ugift Indvigen 1883-05-11

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Thank you, Cliff!  I have so many things to look at now, I hardly know where to start.  How did you find the Emigrants from Bergen link?  I had located something like that many years ago, but I don't know how to find it anymore.

I sure have a lot of gratitude just before Thanksgiving!

Rebab

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(Just thought I'd change my name to Reba instead of "Rebab".  Nothing like throwing up more obstacles for future genealogists!  ;-)   )

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Emigrant protocol lists were easier in the old DigitalArkivet (hereafter DA)    http://gda.arkivverket.no/cgi-win/WebMeta.exe?slag=vismeny&fylkenr=&knr=&katnr=5&aar=&dagens=&emnenr=1

Plus the findings give us a list of people travelling with our search object which is handy.

In the New DA     https://www.digitalarkivet.no/en/

Click Advanced Person Search - Click Category + sign - Choose Emigration Records - Select All

Then in the same page scroll down to Geography + sign - Choose Vestlandet - Choose Bergen-Bergen

This is a kind of smart search so using Niels will find Nils for example.  Disadvantage is I cannot find a way to display those registered next to "My" traveller which is often very important.

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I think this is him in 1875 https://www.digitalarkivet.no/census/person/pf01052322002997

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Make note that Anna Rasmusdatter Sæten registered leaving Bergen on the 9th of May and Nils Sivertsen on the 11th.  The Allan Line applies to the line that crosses the ocean after they take the Wilson Line feeder ship across to Hull so they may well have been on the same ship leaving Liverpool and the arrival would have been in Canada with the Allan Line.  Crappy ships lists from those days so I did not find either of them just yet arriving in North America.

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probably

Name:	Ann R Saten
Gender:	Female
Age:	22
Birth Year:	abt 1865
Date of Arrival:	25 May 1887
Vessel:	Sardinian
Search Ship Database:	Search for the Sardinian in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Port of Arrival:	Quebec, Quebec, Canada
Port of Departure:	Liverpool, England; Londonderry, Ireland

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"Anna R Satens" 22 yrs old arrived at Quebec, Quebec on the Allen Line ship Sardinian on 25 May 1887

It's on Ancestry if you have access...

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Cliff, Jamie,

This is such great information.  It's going to help me with not only this line, but with a whole lot of my mother's Norwegian based ancestry.  

I think you did find the port of arrival for Ann, Jamie.  Everything fits perfectly.  It's going to take me forever to catch up with the wealth of new leads I have. Not that I'm complaining. I have no idea how everyone seems to be so quick with finding and adding information. (Thank you both!!!)  I can't believe how many ancestors Nels Nelson has since last night.... and none of that was accomplished by me!

Cliff, I'm going to have to re-read some of your comments, especially about the "smart search" tips.  Right now my head is exploding and I have to glue it back together again.

Rebab

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I mean, Reba.