Is this false information? [closed]

+13 votes
914 views
Hey.

A while back when I was looking up information for a couple families in the tree, I came across this gem:
https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/jean-baptiste-ross_45704673

I asked people in the thread about it and a couple users helped me out with it. They said they weren't sure about it. It could be a treasure trove of info or it could be fake news.

I was wondering what peoples' take on it is. I'm not adding ANY of the information on here to anything because it's just unusual. I'll list the pros and cons.

Pros:

1. The tree's does go down the line to my grandfather as you go forward in time.
2. Some of the names, dates and places do match up with what I already have for data.

Cons:

1. Adele Cyr has over twenty kids?! That...doesn't even begin to make sense for early 19th century America.

2. The tree jumps from Ross to Roy in a generation.

3. I cannot find anything on FamilySearch about Adele Cyr. It's like she doesn't exist. You'd think a lady with that many kids would be in a record book.

So, yeah. What's the deal with this tree? Is it correct information? It seems like it's a combination of several trees on ancestry merged into one. It's odd to say the least. Any help would be appreciated! Thanks!
closed with the note: Question answered. Help was received.
in Genealogy Help by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (774k points)
closed by Chris Ferraiolo

Ancestry records are user submitted. 

One marriage record

 All Results

Adele Cyr

 in the Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

VIEWQuebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968

      Name: Adele Cyr
      Spouse: J Baptiste Rosse
      Event: Mariage (Marriage)
      Marriage Year: 1842
      Marriage Location: Sherbrooke, Québec (Quebec)
      Place of Worship or Institution: St-Michel

      Source Information

      Ancestry.com. Quebec, Canada, Vital and Church Records (Drouin Collection), 1621-1968 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2008.

      Original data: Gabriel Drouin, comp. Drouin Collection. Montreal, Quebec, Canada: Institut Généalogique Drouin.

       

      There is also an Adele Cyr born to Jean and Madeleine about 1829 in New Brunswick and she married Jean Baptiste Chartier in 1850.
      This is good, quality info with citations. Thank you!

       

      Eddie, do you think it's the same lady?
      Adele who married Rosse, her father was Michel.
      Married in 1842,  check Quebec census for 1851 and 1861 for children?
      That would be a good idea. =) Thanks.

      11 Answers

      +6 votes
      I can't speak to the validity of the info you've accessed, but I'm sure there are women who had 20 or more children in the early 19th century.  I was working of a family with 18 children just the other day.  And if it's a case of a man having two or three wifes (but only one of them shown in his family) it's even easier.  Many women had children every 2 years (gradually tapering off to every 3 years) but some would have 8-10 per decade which might lead to a total of 20 or more.  As for verifying this particular family, You might want to try finding one of the earlier censuses for the head of household.  From 1790 to 1840 in the US they showed the number of people by age and sex (but not name) so you could at least see if the number of children was reasonable.
      by Dave Dardinger G2G6 Pilot (443k points)
      True, but, it looks like half survived to adulthood. That's what threw me off. I'm sure it's possible, too. It looks like she had a few husbands. Just looked odd to me, you know? Thanks!
      I recently found that one of my ancestors had two sets of twins.  A sturdy, healthy woman can give birth approximately from the ages of 14 to 50.  If she marries young and has twins in the family, 20 children is possible.  It's doubtful all will be healthy and  live to adulthood but possible.  But, I'd definitely double-check.
      +14 votes
      Chris,

      This type of tree (specious connections, no sources) is fairly common on ancestry.com.  I don't think we really can conclude anything about the intentions of the creator, could be negligence, simple wishful thinking or fraud.  It could simply have been someone's drawing board that somehow got published.

      Trees like this are a great reminder that there is no substitute for sound research connecting and documenting each relationship one at a time.

      This tree might provide some hints for research but, other than that, it is pretty much useless to a serious researcher.
      by JT Strong G2G6 Mach 8 (85.4k points)
      Thanks, JT! =)  There are some bits of correct info. Of course it had some birthdays I found off by a year and my great-grandmother's death off by a week.  

      I found her death record on FamilySearch and I knew that was incorrect when I saw this thing. The place she died was accurate. It was just off by a week. Crazy.

      Rest assured my tree on ancestry is accurate. This is just a mess. Who signed off on this?
      +7 votes

      There are few trees on ancestry I've seen that are factual.  One even has my research and is still wrong. 

      Look at the children. its going to take some math skills about 6th grade level to be able to add 9 months gestation and 18 months for breast feeding. Regardless of the addage, popping one out every year, it was actually 18 months to 2 years as an average. 

      So if a woman is young enough and healthy enough, she can have 16 children during her reproductive life, barring multiple births. 

      by Lynette Jester G2G6 Mach 8 (86.0k points)
      True. It looks like a fair few lived. Not sure how medicine was back then. But, it just seemed odd because there's over twenty kids here.
      They probably aren't all hers, probably some belong to a differnt wife.  Women died in childbirth, mostly due to doctors and midwives not washing their hands, causing infection. Infection was the main cause of death period. If a man has young children at home, he's liable to remarry rather quickly because he needs someone to take care of those children.

      Chidren died from a multitude of things, namely measles and other childhood diseases, IF they survived infancy.
      Thanks. I'm probably going to disregard this info, though. It seems like this is an amalgamation like Rebecca said. It's supposedly a teaser for Ancestry.com. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. But, whatever. I'll look for the truth and at the same time put this to the wayside. Some of the info IS correct from like 1900 down for my family. The rest? Very suspect.

      I wish I was able to message people there and figure out what the deal is.  Meanwhile, ancestry's got to find a better endorsement for their site.
      There are numerous French Canadian and Acadian families with 20+ children. They didn't all survive. If you have a couple of preemie births in there, it is entirely possible.
      Right. :) this thread is old. Got things figured out now. Check Adele's page. I linked it down in someone's comment.
      +9 votes
      In a word, no. This page is a "teaser" put out by Ancestry.com but does not give you access to the actual records for this tree without signing up. it also amalgamates multiple trees for the same person. So if you and I have the same person in our trees but different children for them, this page would list ALL of those children. Click on Adele's name so that she is at the top of the page. She suddenly has 3 husbands: James McRoss, Jean Baptiste Ross, and Jean Baptiste Roy. It's just a gumbo of all the trees errors for her.

      I have a membership and I found one tree inside the system along with the name of the person who has posted it on Ancestry.com. The only source for his data is listed as OneWorld Tree which Ancestry.com has since dropped as a valid reference source. No census, no birth records, no marriage records, nothing else.

      I always drill into each reference because the person building the tree may have trusted the transcription, when the actual record is completely different.
      by Rebecca Peterson G2G6 Mach 1 (19.4k points)
      LOL. I wouldn't have this tree as a glowing endorsement for Ancestry.com.  I'm not adding anything from this on there except maybe Adele. I found her on a couple trees on Myheritage if that helps at all.

      I figured this was an amalgam of trees. It makes sense now since I do have my closest ancestors on that amalgamation.

      I wonder if the same person posted the info on Myheritage, too. I found similar people on his tree. No idea who this guy is.

      Thanks for your help. I tend to drill into references, too. Good thing this site and FamilySearch helps a bit. Though, sometimes FamilySearch and I don't see eye to eye.
      My Heritage, Ancestry, Find a Grave-- each and every site, including Family Search and yes,WikiTree, are only as good as their sources. I love Family Search, but I'm well aware that individuals who add the sources often make transcription errors. The best sources there are the ones with photos of the document, but even those are sometimes wrong. From the mouth of the actual person, to the ear of the record taker, to the pen of the record taker, to the eye of a later transcriber, to their sometimes interpretive transcription, to the person who wants it to be the one who fits in their tree is a huge game of Telephone. Just because ten people put the same thing on their tree doesn't make it true. You know a tree is plagiarized if you find data such as "born in of, Louisiana" or "born in ,  Louisiana" or "born in , , Louisiana."  Or "died in Gravestone." They didn't even bother to proofread what they copied and pasted, much less research it. The only answer is here and now, with us, to take the honor code seriously and never state as fact something that you can't prove. As someone else said though, often those suspect trees can give you clues to work with. And it's very satisfying to track down the truth.
      It also doesn't help than FamilySearch's layout is ancient and incredibly buggy.  I would like try to research something and it crashes.  I think they are undergoing maintenance tomorrow which I hope fixes the bugs in the system.

      And yea you can't trust everything on the internet unless there's photographic proof. That goes without saying.

      Oh and I have found other pedigrees. I wasn't sure if they were legit or not.. Yet, someone used them and added the info. I'm checking with FS to see if they are correct. Some of the names match, but, there are no sources. I think they're using a source that has a paywall. I can't get to it. It's really annoying.

      I also found a death certificate which had a guy's name by the name Arthur on it. Somehow that became Antione in French. And Margaret became Maxime. How does that work?!

      But, yeah, I see what you are saying. It's a good idea to be careful. Some of the stuff on that tree was legit. She had half of the kids listed. The rest were duplicates.  Anyway, I use Ancestry to store everything, Geni too. Familysearch for research and Wikitree to bring it together. This site's good. It combines everything. Just gotta be mindful of info.

      Question. What do you think of sites people make to post their genealogies? It's nice in theory, but, not an official source. I had to send an e-mail to a lady because she didn't have ALL the marriages a person had. My good deed for the day, I guess.
      +4 votes
      About Adele Cyr, I can see her having 20 children, my grandfather , fathered 20 children. My grandmother was pregnant 16 times, only 11 lived. Or maybe she was married twice, she may have already had 10 or more children and the father could have died and she could have married again to someone with children of their own. Happens all the time.

      S Rackemann
      by S Rackemann G2G3 (3.6k points)
      True. Just thought it was odd given the time period she lived in. (Early 1800s) And everyone in the thread pretty much told me that this tree I posted was bogus since that tree is a combination of various trees. It's supposed to be an endorsement for Ancestry.com. A BAD one if you ask me. So, I am back to square one. I did find her on a Myheritage tree. But, I hit a paywall when I went to check it out. Oh well.

      I did notice that on a tree there she had like three kids. Didn't say who the husband was.
      Good luck with your search, I hope you find what you're looking for.

      S Rackemann
      Thanks! I hope so too.  =) Ancestry really shouldn't make trees like that. If you're gonna make an endorsement use an established tree of someone famous. Not random peoples' mistakes.
      +4 votes

      Jean Baptiste Rosse
      fils de Jean Baptiste Rosse et Marie Anne Giguère
      et
      Adèle Cyr
      fille de Michel Cyr et josephte Rousseau

      Mariage 1842-08-08 Sherbrooke

      "Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G99D-T9VC?cc=1321742&wc=9RL2-923%3A24878101%2C25285901%2C26852803 : 16 July 2014), Sherbrooke > Saint-Michel-de-Sherbrooke > Index 1834-1876 Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1834-1847 > image 210 of 310; nos paroisses de Église Catholique, Quebec (Catholic Church parishes, Quebec).

      So, you can create Adelle Syre, she was born 1826-09-11 Trois-Rivières

      She is the daughter of Cyr-851 and Rousseau-485

      "Québec, registres paroissiaux catholiques, 1621-1979," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-899Q-H54L?cc=1321742&wc=9RLV-92Q%3A25042301%2C25229401%2C26880601 : 16 July 2014), Trois-Rivières > Immaculée Conception > Baptêmes, mariages, sépultures 1798-1827 > image 738 of 749; nos paroisses de Église Catholique, Quebec (Catholic Church parishes, Quebec).

       

      by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (120k points)
      edited by E Martin
      As long as she doesn't have like 20 kids or something. Yeah, I don't like that Ancestry thing.

      Thanks, E.

      Seriously. That page above is messed up. Thanks for clearing up a TON of garbage. You sure that's the same Ross that's the father of the ross in my tree?
      Yes, I am sure: this is the same: Rosse = Ross

      and the same Cyr = Cyre = Syre ....

      At this time, the spelling was not fixed, it was a 'sound' spelling.

      (sorry for the multiple update of my answer)
      It's fine. G-mail can take it.  Still wonder where that random name in my grandmother's book came from. Wish I could ask her.
      Oh and have you been able to find anything on both John Rosses? The one married to Adele and his son who was married to Marguerite Metitivier? Info on her parents would be nice. Thanks.
      +4 votes
      Children of Jean Baptiste Ross and Adèle Cyr (marriage 1842-08-08)
      Born Sherbrooke (Saint-Michel-de-Sherbrooke)

      1 Georges 1843-04-26
      2 Jean Thomas 1845-05-14
      3 Jean Baptiste 1847-07-17
      4 Louis 1850-01-18
      5 Marie Adéline 1852-03-09
      6 Hubert 1854-04-09
      7 Adéline 1856-08-15
      8 Edouard 1858-08-14 death 1877-03-05
      9 Marie Emilie 1860-10-29
      10 Joseph Béloni 1863-04-16

      I will create the profile with the source
      by E Martin G2G6 Pilot (120k points)
      Ten kids is a lot more manageable and makes more sense than twenty plus.
      Are you going to make one for John Ross? What info do we have for him?
      Thanks for your help. I found Matilda, too.

      https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MFQH-9V5

      She's the wife of one of the sons you didn't list. Albert W.
      +3 votes
      Last night I found the smoking gun that solved all the problems I had with this. It was in the 1880 US census. It seems Matilda was a daughter in law to Adelle and lived in the same house:
      https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MFQH-9V5

      Huh. Interesting. Sorry if my stubborness annoyed anyone. Can't go against a census report.  Though, the number of kids she had keeps changing.
      by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (774k points)
      Maltilda is the wife of #6 Hubert-Albert (born 1854).

      Adèle had 13 children : 10 born in Sherbrooke, Canada, and 3 more after immigration in US:

      11 Andrew  (André in french)  1866
      12 Mary Margaret  1867  death ?
      13 Fred  (Alfred in french)  1869

      Adèle was born in 1826, she was 43 years old in 1869.
      Yep. I found that out and corrected it. So....Who's gonna add in all those kids? Hmmmm? =D

      Oh and on an unrelated note, I found Delphine Gourgon's parents. Will be adding them soon. Added a whole bunch of people. Check them out on my recent activity.

      I created the profile of the kids with the sources

      Thanks. =D Good job! Working on some other profiles. Some, I'm sure, need better Quebec sources than the ones I listed.
      +4 votes
      Hi, I'm a newbie so excuse any errors. I don't know how to transfer my Ancestry records, but I have them, I don't know if you got the info you wanted, but here it is. Adele Cyr married into my family. Born in 1827 in St. Hyacinth, Qc to Michel Cyr & Marie Josephe Rousseau. Marriage #1-James McRoss(1860-1934)-9 kids, #2 Jean Baptiste Ross(1826-?)-1 kid, #3 Jean Baptiste Roy(1820-1894)-16 kids.

      She passed 27 June 1904 in Manchester, Hillsborough, New Hampshire.

      Hope it helps.

      Kim
      by Kim Stone G2G1 (1.5k points)
      It's ok. We were all new once. :) since the thread was posted, I compiled the info into her profile. You can see it here: http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Syre-23

      Feel free to add any info you want and I will check it out. But, I really do not trust the info I linked in the first place. If you want to talk about her and the Rosses, please send me a private message.

      Thanks!

      Is this false information?

      Marriage #1-James McRoss(1860-1934)-9 kids = This is false information !

      Marriage #2 Jean Baptiste Ross(1826-?)-1 kid = Yes, Adèle Cyr married Jean Baptiste Ross in 1842. Jean Baptiste was born in 1816, not 1826. And the couple had 13 children.

      Marriage #3 Jean Baptiste Roy(1820-1894)-16 kids = This is false information !

      Thanks, E! Glad you came by to help with this. Was going to mention this thread bump to you. The mystery has since been solved. Perhaps it should be closed?
      +2 votes
      Are there census records you can check??

      Pat
      by Living Prickett G2G6 Mach 9 (96.9k points)
      Already done. This thread is old and E Martin helped with a lot of the issues I had.
      +2 votes
      Just a head's up. Got this issue resolved thanks to E Martin and a few other people. Profile was edited with the changes in place. Eventually, I will flesh out her and a lot of other profiles.
      by Chris Ferraiolo G2G6 Pilot (774k points)

      Related questions

      +7 votes
      1 answer
      +4 votes
      1 answer
      +13 votes
      2 answers
      103 views asked Dec 17, 2020 in The Tree House by Michael Cyr G2G Crew (710 points)
      +6 votes
      2 answers
      518 views asked Dec 3, 2014 in The Tree House by Guy Constantineau G2G6 Pilot (385k points)
      +7 votes
      3 answers
      1.1k views asked Apr 21, 2014 in Genealogy Help by anonymous

      WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

      disclaimer - terms - copyright

      ...