Does LDS data have any place in profiles?

Question

I do not wish to engage in any religion discussion, BUT:

Other that something that occurs to a living person, is there a consensus as to whether LDS baptism, endowment, or sealing information belongs in a persons profile?

Asked in all innocence, I just want to be a good arborist, and edit profiles correctly.

Comments

As I mentioned in my question, I am not referring to a baptism of a living person. I am referring to the baptism of a long dead person.

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OK, I get that now. Presumably when we get Pio of Patrelcina on board we would expect to record his canonisation 34 years after his death.

Is an LDS baptism any different in its relevance to the person's life? I don't know.

Which leaves two further questions.

If it is not there do we add it?

If it is there do we remove it? - My own view is no.

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but a LDS baptism is not comparable to canonisation. As is mentioned in the thread that Kitty mentions below, a LDS submission has absolutely no documented relevance to a person's life. Nor was that person concerned during their own life as to the status of their soul vis-a-vis the Mormon Church.

I am sorry I have raised religion, and the phrasing of my original question could have been better, but just as we list the birthplace as it was when the person was born, their religion should be listed as it was in their lifetime.

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Reading below, I'm obviously in a minority. So be it.

Answer 1

I'm LDS myself and I leave that information out when I create a GEDCOM. It's not really relevant here, in my opinion, and as Chris stated in the other referenced thread, I think most LDS people would rather see it documented on FamilySearch rather than a site like this.  If there is a note as to their ID# on FamilySearch (it would look something like L7Z4-WM6) then I would encourage you to leave that there as then anyone looking would be able to find that person on FamilySearch.  Thanks!

Answer 2

I'm not sure how you would want to differentiate LDS from baptism in any other church. We rely very much on baptisms for dates.

That said, surely anything relevant to the person's life is appropriate in a biography. Providing it isn't done by way of proselytising, then I'd say it's fine.

Comments

Martin, the LDS "baptisms" being discussed here are typically those that were done post-mortem by descendants who wish to bring their ancestors into the Mormon church.  I like what's been said about retaining information about the person of events that occurred during their life time, but leaving to the LDS site the specifics about the conversion of deceased individuals.

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Yes, I've not suggested we add it. I stand by my view that, if it has been included, we shouldn't remove it.

But, as I said, I'm not going to fight a majority view. It isn't that important to me. It might be to others?

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A note on this:

Most LDS people don't even realize that the LDS data gets included when they export a GEDCOM from their software.  You have to click to EXCLUDE it rather than to include it.  I would say if the profile looks like someone has taken time to edit and clean it up and the LDS data is still there than perhaps it is right to keep it.  But if the profile hasn't been touched it is safe to remove it.  The exception being, as I said earlier, if there is the ID# of the person's profile in FamilySearch.

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If after I died someone decided to baptise into a different religion I would hope my family would sue the group that did it.

Honestly I see the baptisms as changing the past.  If the individual was in that religion and new from the start what could happen then fine but to go after the fact seems wrong and I would not want happening to me after I died.

Answer 3

These temple-related events are often initiated and/or completed by living descendants of the deceased individual. The recording of this information could lead to the discovery of living relatives who would likely have more than the basic genealogical information.

Answer 4

I don't know if this is exactly the same topic, but check this thread for more info.

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/12313/what-is-the-policy-for-retaining-or-not-lds-baptisms

Comments

Thanks Kitty, I did not see that thread before I posted the question.

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Thanks for the old reference, Kitty . I have another question rellated to this topic .

As I merge, clean up the profile of LDS Pioneers who will be in the LDS Pioneers Project, I have been leaving the baptisms and sealing infrmation tags in .

I need to know if I should leave them in for these project profiles or go under the idea Tami mentioned in the other post ? I am leaning towards Tami's idea.

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Tami sounds well informed, but I don't think any profile guidelines have been set for the LDS Pioneers Project.  I have to defer to someone who is more knowledgeable.

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Tami said  "LDS ordinance information is only of any interest to an LDS member, and the ordinance dates aren't of any value otherwise, because ordinances can be done hundreds of years after a person has died."  Which is true.  

However, if the person was baptized LDS during their lifetime then the baptism date would be within their lifetime.  That's the only exception I can think of to leaving that information in a biography as it would be the date that person was actually baptized into the LDS church and as such is actually a part of their life. 

Maggie, for the LDS Pioneers the majority of them probably WERE baptized during their lifetime so I think leaving that information in on those profiles would be appropriate as it's as valid a baptism date as someone baptized into a Catholic or Lutheran church.

(Btw...I volunteered to head up the LDS Pioneers Project since it's a subject close to home :) )

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Also, in terms of the LDS Pioneers profiles, if there is already a marriage date, I would go with that.  If there's is NOT marriage date but there is a sealing date, I'd leave that in their biography because there's a decent chance it is their actual marriage date.

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I agree that we will defiinitely keep those religious dates in the profiles of the Pioneers.

Okay , Eowyn . There seems to be enough interest in this project . I wrote a draft late last night and will email it to you ! 

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Cool! I look forward to seeing it!  Go team! 

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Maggie,

SInce I'm on the project would you mind sending it to me as well?

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Hi Michelle,

She was referring to the draft of the Project page which is now up and live :)

Answer 5

Mmm... I just thought of something. The principle we're following here would be documenting the events that took place in a person's lifetime. Using that principle, we would exclude LDS baptisms/sealings, etc. that took place, say, 200 years after the person died. 

If we follow that same principle, then it logically implies that we would also exclude the fact that someone was inducted into the ABCXYZ Hall of Fame after they died... Or that someone received a posthumous Purple Heart for bravery... 

I'm guessing we wouldn't want to exclude things like THAT... 

So much for principles... 

Comments

That was exactly my point about Saint Pio. I think it has to be more detailed than a general principle.

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I see what you are saying but those are all things reflecting on what someone did during their lifetime. The LDS baptisms/sealings that took place after their death are not.

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Ok, got it.

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Thank you Eowyn.

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That is different, a person get a purple heart for being wounded.  As long as they were wounded in war I see no reason not to note a late receipt of the award.  If a person was Jewish their whole life then 200 years after they died it would be wrong to change their religion.

An award for something you were a part of is different than receiving recognition for something you were never a part of.

Answer 6

I have been trying to walk the line.  I have been compacting all the LDS information under one title, with the title, naturally, of === LDS Information ===.  I have been told that LDS members will probably get the info from FamilySearch, but it might help them or family members to leave it in.

Comments

I am also LDS, and find that having the family search information in the profiles over on this site can end up being misleading and frustrating rather than helpful. Just like any other user-generated information site, the changing and merging of profiles varies the level of link accuracy by the minute! There is simply no way that the links could remain up-to-date with familysearch's ever changing data. In my family tree, I find that my ancestors have been created multiple times. They are often from gedcoms created on ancestry.com, which makes the reference no more relevant than the original. I work hard to make my family tree well researched and sourced and make familysearch a personal reference. I think most LDS members that use the site feel the about the same.