Lucy, a Harwood/Waters brickwall

Question

Who is Lucy? Help would be most welcome please :) I'm trying to manually add my tree and I'm finding holes in my research on route so I'm glad I'm doing it this way but its confounded me on this ancestor! I would be grateful of some help? I'm trying to source profiles I've added on my female line.

Lucy Waters. B.1841 - is she Waters?

I have on my ancestry tree my 3xGG Lucy married to John Harwood B.1842.

I have UK census data, if I order it as I found it you can see 3/5 say she's born in Bolton & 2/5 in Derbyshire, but I'm missing her childhood census...

1881 UK census - Bolton, Lancashire. My 2xGG Sarah Harwood, living with her parents Lucy & John Harwood & siblings

1891 UK census - Bolton, Lancashire. Lucy & John Harwood with some of the children from the last census and younger ones, repeated in 1901 & 1911

1871 UK census - Bolton, Lancashire. Lucy & John Harwood  with the older children before my 2xGG was born

By this her eldest child was b.1862ish so a wedding of a John Harwood to a Lucy Waters recorded in 1861 in Bolton sounds likely in the registration records; but who is she, the record has no detail?? Argh! Driving me mad!

Sorry for really long post, but the 2/5 census (1891 & 1901) that list Lucy as born in Derbyshire are contradicting the 3/5 that say she's born in Bolton... & I can't find a likely Waters anywhere for either birth place!

Comments

Book

https://books.google.com/books?id=P_mhBQAAQBAJ&pg=PA312&lpg=PA312&dq=lucy+harwood+born+1841&source=bl&ots=XOPK_pQDcJ&sig=zD9k3olPUJ04K-Mp-UDkq5H7qVc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCoc_2lZnUAhWa14MKHSBwA2wQ6AEIJDAD

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Maybe you can get this book from a library

https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/20690?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Has Harwood and Waters

Answer 1

The marriage registration of Lucy Waters to John Harwood December quarter 1861 Bolton Registration District 8c 245 would be the most probably marriage, but you would need to order the marriage Certificate from https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates to be able to get additional details such as father's name . father's occupation and witnesses to help identify Lucy in the earlier census.

Answer 2

The 1911 Census for John & Lucy confirms 50 years of marriage with Lucy's birth place given as Derby, Derbyshire.

There marriage is clearly 1861, and all records for this marriage give Lucy's surname as Waters. Whether Lucy was using this surname or not or whether the name has been transcribed incorrectly I do not know. However, I believe Lucy was living with her parents John & Ann in Bolton in 1861. The surname was WATRET. In 1851, The family in 1851, were living in West Derby, Lancashire, with the surname WATRET. By 1871, her mother Ann was a widow, living in Bolton, under the surname WATERS. Father, John was born in Scotland, with mother Ann and most of Lucy's siblings being born on Ockbrook, Derbyshire.

It appears though that this WATRET surname is not correct as Lucy's birth was registered in Shardlow, 1840 as Lucy WATERET (GRO Birth Index Shardlow  19/509 q Oct-Dec 1840) and baptised in King Street Chapel, Derby on 7 October 1840, the daughter of John WATERET   & Ann (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N1F3-7YW)

Comments

That is interesting and ties in with an observation I made - at least two of John & Lucy's children's births : Joseph (1865) and William (1867) are registered with mother's maiden name as WATRUT. I Initially though this may have been a transcription error (Dove project) used for the online GRO birth & death Index

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The one I found was Charles, b 1863, MMN Waterhut..... all the variation in spelling makes for great fun whilst searching!

Answer 3

Although that census says Wellington, I believe it should be Willington, as there is no Wellington in Derbyshire. Willington would probably be under Shardlow Reg district. However there are no Lucy Waters born in that period in that area. There is however a Lucy Wateret born 4th quarter of 1840 in Shardlow district. There is also a christening of a Lucy Wateret on 07 Oct 1840, parents John and Ann, in King Street Chapel, Derby.
My interest piqued by this, I searched the GRO for any children born Harwood with a mother Wateret or similar spelling, around the early 1860's and came up with a Charles Harwood, born Bolton 1863 J quarter, mother Waterhut. Charles Harwood was christened in Bolton-le-Moors, Lancashire on 23 Aug 1863, parents John Harwood and Lucy.

I therefore surmise she was born Wateret and has been misspelled all sorts of ways. She may even have shortened it to Waters to avoid this.

I hope this is helpful to you.

Comments

WATERET, LUCY    

Mother's maiden name:	HOLMES
GRO Reference: 1840  D Quarter in SHARDLOW UNION  Volume 19  Page 509

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There's a John Watret marriage in Shardlow in 1838, one of the possible spouses in the list is Ann Holmes:

"England and Wales Marriage Registration Index, 1837-2005," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DH8-P74 : 13 December 2014), John Watret, 1838; from “England & Wales Marriages, 1837-2005,” database, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : 2012); citing 1838, quarter 4, vol. 19, p. 541, Shardlow, Derbyshire, England, General Register Office, Southport, England.

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1861 census, John Watret (occupation master mason) born Scotland, Wife Ann born Ockbrook, Derby with a number of children including Lucy, born Ockbrook, Derby, residing in Bolton:

"England and Wales Census, 1861," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7H1-1YH : 6 April 2016), John Watret, Great Bolton, Lancashire, England; from "1861 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 9, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.

And the 1851:
"England and Wales Census, 1851," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SG56-RRV : 24 July 2016), John Watret, West Derby, Lancashire, England; citing West Derby, Lancashire, England, p. 11, from "1851 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.

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And now I notice Ron has already come to the same conclusion, lol. He hadn't posted when I started, honest.

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Lol...I do that every day :)

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Gillian, thank you for those links, that's brilliant!

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Genius, google maps tells me Mason Street her address in 1861 still exists, as does spring gardens her address in 1871.... Guess what, they are connected by 1 road, approx a 60 second walk! No doubt this is the right record!!!! Thank you so much!

Answer 4

Oh my goodness, I've just got home from work and can I just say all  you guys are amazing!!!! All the information is so great I couldn't possibly pick a best answer! It also makes me realise what a novice I am, haha

Comments

WOW, I love to google meanings of names! Ron & Gillian this is tantalising, the Scottish link could lead me back to a very old name variant....

http://forebears.co.uk/surnames/wateret

Answer 5

As you're all so good at this my next cheeky question, once sourced which Name should appear on the profile, what would be the best thing for future geneologists?

Comments

The LNAB  should be Wateret, but other surnames that Lucy was known by should be noted.

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Thank you, I've amended LNAB & sourced the profile, hope its OK, I'm still getting to grips with sourcing,  as to the details around 'style' haha I still have none!!