Should we add House of Zähringen to the European Aristocrats project?

Question

I was just adding Maximilian, Margrave of Baden to WikiTree. I'm pretty sure I'm doing it wrong. I mean, is his surname Zähringen? Does he even have a surname? Anyway, I didn't see that house on the house assignment page, so I thought I'd start a discussion here. Let me know if I can add a project account or some members to his Trusted List or as profile manager. Thanks!

Comments

Here you have Zähringen at Wikipedia and this is the list of people i WIkiTree mapped to WikiData that are in the House of Zähring

• http://tinyurl.com/h74zk4y

Same but also people not mapped to Wikitree

• http://tinyurl.com/jl8cwqh

Answer 1

His legal name is Maximilian Andreas Friedrich Gustav Ernst-August Bernhard Markgraf von Baden, the Markgraf being a legal part of his family name (when Germany did away with privileges of nobility with the Weimar Constitution in 1919 the one thing they did was making titles and predicates part of the last name). Going also by the name Max von Baden, and he sometimes adds Herzog von Zähringen to his full name although that title is not part of his legal name. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Andreas_Markgraf_von_Baden

Comments

Thanks, Helmut! Would you have time to help edit his profile? If so, send over a request and I'll happily add you.

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I think we first need to discuss and agree on how to handle post-WW I nobility from countries where nobility does not exist anymore (all of Eastern Europe, Germany, Austria, Italy, France).

Answer 2

Thanks Karen

As you note, most European Aristocrats don't formally have surnames and the best alternative is to use their dynasty name which is Zähringen for the ruling families of Baden.

The house assignment page is very out of date, and is something I am hoping to clean up in the new year.

However there is already a House of Zähringen category under the list of German Nobility https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:German_Nobility

If you could delete the Category:European Aristocrats Project (which is the main category and shouldn't be added to individual profiles) and replace it with the Category:House of Zähringen, that would be great.

Thanks again, John

Comments

I've also just changed his title from Margrave of Baden to Markgraf von Baden (names and titles should be in the language of the person, in this case German)

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John, at least German speaking nobility does have formal last names, in this case (Max von Baden) the legal last name appearing on passports, legal registrations etc. is Markgraf von Baden which is his Current Last Name. His Last Name At Birth was Prinz von Baden. The Weimar Constitution from 1919 abolished privileges and titles and subsequent state laws converted the titles the whole family was previously entitled to, not individual ruling titles, and the predicates "von" and "zu" to integral parts of the family name. The von Baden family does use informally the title Herzog von Zähringen but this is not a legally recognized part of their name and does not exist as a title anymore since 1919.