Question about modern England genealogy

+16 votes
594 views

My UK genealogy experience so far has been limited to following very unique names in Scotland and using credits at ScotlandsPeople to confirm data with Statutory records.

But now I'm working in Wales where there is a pool of 5 last names. Luckily one little part of my family moved to England where they were somewhat easy to track in the census due to their birth locations.

Question though, is there no way to access the birth, marriage and death records short of ordering a hard copy for £15? I can see where William Matthews died and there are no other candidates. His wife then married confirming that William did die.

I currently subscribe to Ancestry (US only) and Findmypast World but am only finding indexes. I also watched a few of the lessons at the FamilySearch Learning Center but didn't hear any alternative methods.

WikiTree profile: William Matthews
in Genealogy Help by Carrie Quackenbush G2G6 Mach 8 (80.5k points)
England and Wales BMD Certificates are available for £9.25 direct from the GRO. http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Use http://www.freebmd.org.uk to search for the index data you will need for ordering the certificates.
Thank you Rosemary. I guess if I were to try to fit them into a genealogy budget for the month, I'd have to unsubscribe from everything else and then spend the money ordering a few. How do people not go broke researching in England? :)
You pick and choose and try to make an educated decision as to which is the most likely. I try to get the Baptism, Marriage and Burial Records from FamilySearch. And if you are really going after England and Wales try buying credits from FindMyPast.co.uk. They have parish records that FamilySearch doesn't.

There are also parish records on Ancestry.co.uk - very useful. Wait for the free access days on both these sites, have your lists all ready and hit them hard while they are free.

Use this site to see where to find things:
http://www.genuki.org.uk

Also use the Wiki in FamilySearch for help; use the search by place in FamilySearch to bring up the list of collctions for that region (down to the county level). Included in that list are the collections that aren't indexed. You can't search these but you can sit there in your jammies with your coffee or a stiff drink and browse the images.
Always post requests for help before ordering certificates. There are many helpful UK genealogists here and we all seem to have a few secret techniques for interrogating the data.

Thanks, Matthew, will do! I've been debating getting on for Howell Rees' marriage https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Rees-686 , but given the early date it probably wouldn't add anything new. There is some doubt that his wife was a Morgan though. It's also concerning that his occupation changed as that's not supposed to have ever happened.

His kids have a mother's maiden name of Morgan in the GRO Index so it looks pretty solid to me. I also found the 27th August 1836 using findmypast. Maesteg is under the Bridgend & Cowbridge registration district.
Ah brilliant, thank you so much. I haven't added them here yet but it's pretty clear who her parents are then, and that her brother Richard was in the 1841 census.
In addition to FreeBMD, don't forget there are also https://www.freecen.org.uk/ for censuses and https://www.freereg.org.uk/ for church register transcripts. Neither are complete, yet, but they are getting there.

Also worth searching to see if there is an OPC - Online Parish Clerk - for your location. Where there are I have found them to be incredibly helpful.

6 Answers

+7 votes
 
Best answer
Church of England (which included Wales then) baptism records won't normally give the mother's maiden name, so not helpful.

Non-conformist baptisms, you'd have to find it first.

You need a birth cert for one of the kids to get the mother.  Emily's would be the easiest to pick in the index.  From the census image, she was 10 months old in April 1851, not 1 month as given on FamilySearch.

Given the mother's name, you can probably pick the marriage.  The marriage cert would hopefully give both fathers' names, though sometimes they disappoint.  You might not need it for Anne's father if you can find her in 1841, though 1841 doesn't help with William.

There are normally 3 marriage records

(1) signed on the day, held by the main register office that now covers the location, though some districts have moved them to the Archives.  Charges vary.  What you get varies - some places can send an image, other places just copy it out.  Indexing varies - some places can't find the record if you don't know the church.

(2) C of E weddings only - duplicate register, also signed on the day, held by the diocese, somewhere.  Often a county archive, though maybe in a different county.  These registers are often more accessible.  They've often been microfilmed along with the baptisms and burials, and may have been transcribed by the LDS or the local FHS.  Or somebody local might do you a lookup.  It's not unheard of for the Archive staff to do a lookup or supply a cheap photocopy, though others will say they aren't allowed to.  But the big problem again is that there might be 30 churches in a district and no index.

(3) the GRO copy.  These are transcripts made out at the end of the quarter by the vicar or registrar.  The advantage is the indexing.  But sadly their index refs are no use for the other registers.
by Living Horace G2G6 Pilot (638k points)
selected by Carrie Quackenbush
Thank you. I did end up ordering a GRO marriage record for the next generation because I found out that Elizabeth Matthews, the "daughter" that I descend from, had a confirmed brother that does not fit at all in the censuses for this William Matthew's family. Elizabeth's brother was named William but was born 10 years earlier than the William that was a son of the profile linked to this question. The marriage certificate seemed the only way to answer these questions.
+8 votes

Christening date for Emma Matthews, daughter of William & Ann Matthews. familysearch.org is a free site and has extensive records. 

familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X1YZ-HS7

William Matthews

mentioned in the record of Emma Matthews

Name William Matthews
Gender Male
Wife Ann
Daughter Emma Matthews
Name Emma Matthews
Gender Female
Christening Date 12 Jul 1846
Christening Place MERTHYR TYDFIL,GLAMORGAN,WALES
Father's Name William Matthews
Mother's Name Ann

 

 

 

by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.6m points)
Their daughter Anne was supposedly born in 1846 and an Emma doesn't appear in the censuses so she either was a twin that died before 5 years or to belongs to another family.
Emma b. 1846 daughter of William and Ann is in the 1851 census in Newcastle Row, Middlesborough.  Also James ,Elizabeth and William.

Yes, that family appears to be the correct one. http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbc%2f1851%2f0021543952

That also supports the family tradition is that "he was from Wales, and she was from England", though in Joseph and Elizabeth's most certain appearance in the 1871 census it states that she was born in Wales. http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbc%2f1871%2f0000083998

And also the Emma in that record is probably the right one too.

The trouble is that in 1861 the younger children have vanished and there are a new lot starting after 1850 - another William born about 1854.

But i can't find the deaths.

Yeah that got me too! My best guess is that this family moved back to Wales: http://search.findmypast.com/record?id=gbc%2f1861%2f0020479553 This would be supported by the fact that Elizabeth married in Pontypool in 1865, though she's lost between 1851 and 1865. Her father is also mentioned as deceased in her marriage certificate.

And then the family that you see in Middlesbrough, Durham in 1861 is the debunked family (real, just not mine) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Matthews-5513 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7HR-KKQ

+6 votes

familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2V9Z-HJY

William Matthews

England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007

Name William Matthews
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1866
Registration District Stockton
County Durham
Event Place Stockton, Durham, England
Age (available after 1866) 49
Birth Year (Estimated) 1817
Volume 10A
Page 40
Line Number 54
by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.6m points)
Yes, that's the record I'd found.
+8 votes

Freebmd.org.uk makes it easy to search for marriages, as you can enter both the husband and wife and it will match the entries. So it looks like William & Ann married at Merthyr Tydfil in the first quarter of 1842:

Surname  First name(s)    District  Vol  Page 

Marriages Mar 1842   (>99%)
DAVIES  David    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
HUGHES  Richard    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
JONES  Ann    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
LEWIS  Sarah    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
MATTHEWS  William    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
REES  Ann    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
THOMAS  Thomas    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view
WILLIAMS  Jane    Merthyr Tydfil  26 474  image Scan available - click to view

(at that time each page in the GRO registers covered 4 marriages)

The marriage certificate (from the GRO) will give the father's names for both of them - with luck you should then be able to track them down in the 1841 census.

by John Elkin G2G6 Mach 9 (99.7k points)
I really wish I could pick two answers as this is a very clever tip. Thank you! Ann Rees wasn't even on the radar after searching FMP. Er, neither was Ann Jones.

 According to FamilySearch https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KCKX-T8R - William MATTHEWS married Ann JONES 14 Mar 1842 at Vaynor, Brecknockshire, Wales. Image is available at Find My Past.

Ah that's great! I'm not sure that she was Jones before marriage though it is a possibility. She married a Henry Jones after William Matthews died. I did end up ordering a marriage cert for the next generation so perhaps it will reveal her surname.
There were several William Matthews marriages in Merthyr Tydfil between the censuses.  Guessing the marriage without a date or place or mother's maiden name to check is risky.  Actually, "common-law marriage" wasn't that uncommon even though it wasn't legally recognised.
I have an account with findmypast so was able to use the link provided by Vivian to access the image. The fathers are Thomas Mathews, Puddler, and Thomas Jones, Carpenter. Carrie - if you contact me directly I can send you a copy of the image.
If you know any of the children, you can search in the new/updated online  database provided by the GRO, and it will tell you the mother's maiden name.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/Login.asp
I don't why I didn't see this thread before ... Carrie could you please just state who the starting point is  for this investigation and what you know for sure. I'm confused between William, Emma, Elizabeth or Emily.

Well it turned out to be someone's tree but this was not my Matthews branch: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Matthews-5516

The discovery of Elizabeth Matthews' brother William in America settled it, verified by correspondence in a newspaper. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Matthews-5575 Elizabeth Matthews' marriage certificate did confirm that she was the daughter of a William Matthews though.

Also thanks Ros! That helps. Anything to make it easier, ugh.

Surely a better bet for William's wife is Ann James, marriage 1840. It fits the eldest child Jane born early 1842.
+2 votes

Here's Emma Matthews at age 5 living in Durham, England. 

Emma Matthews

England and Wales Census, 1851

Name Emma Matthews
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place , Durham, England
Registration District Stockton
Gender Female
Age 5
Occupation Scholar
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1846
Birthplace Wales
Page Number 21
Registration Number HO107
Piece/Folio 2383 / 325
Affiliate Record Type Household

Household

Role

Sex

Age

Birthplace

William Matthews Head M 35 Wales
Ann Matthews Wife F 32 Wales
Jane Matthews Daughter F 9 Wales
Elizabeth Matthews Daughter F 8 Wales
William Matthews Son M 6 Wales
Emma Matthews Daughter F 5 Wales

The image is viewable at findmypast. By clicking here you will be leaving FamilySearch.org. (fees and other terms may apply)

Visit Partner Site

England and Wales Census, 1851

Household ID 2464
Line Number 15
Digital Folder Number 101795641
Image Number 00903

Citing this Record

"England and Wales Census, 1851," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKV6-YKLN : 4 August 2016), Emma Matthews in household of William Matthews, , Durham, England; citing , Durham, England, p. 21, from "1851 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.

 

by Frank Gill G2G Astronaut (2.6m points)
+3 votes
This site gives free access to parish registers
http://dustydocs.com/ I have used it a lot, some counties are better than others, but I have usually found what I was searching for when I knew the county where the event took place.
by Christine Frost G2G6 Pilot (154k points)

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