A different perspective on receiving "help" with profiles [closed]

Question

This observation is not intended to sound ungrateful for the efforts of enthusiastic Wikitreers who give of their time to improve profiles set up by other members. I ask and receive advice, practical examples and appreciate these responses.

I am methodically, with a plan, creating profiles for branches of family, adding sources and their immediate family members. I then work on filling out the biography section, create categories and add stickers.  So it does take me time to complete a family or branch, but I find it helps me remember the details and linkages.

Recently I found a number of profiles I had set up 'bare bones' to start with had been categorized before I had the opportunity to do so.  It seems there are folks who are keen on doing so and I am not familiar with how they identify the profiles and make the effort.  Somehow it left me disappointed, rather than grateful.  

I very much appreciate edits and advice once I have added information, but much prefer completing a profile first.  

I note that there all sorts of badges and kudos for various efforts and rightly so.  But perhaps a competitive spirit can sometimes quash the enjoyment of another's efforts at slowly but surely adding their tree to the big one!.

My perspective only.  Don't want to receive the 'grumpy, ungrateful badge'!

Update:  Many thanks to all who replied and provided perspective, advice, practice examples and encouragement. Think it`s time to put all that to work for me, so closing.

Comments

I agree, especially changes that are substantial and/or change the format.

I have tried to ask the PM before making big changes, but I do add sources.

One solution, I think, would be to put a prominent note at the top of the Bio stating something like "This bio is in process, I have the sources and would prefer to complete this myself".

or "I am working hard on this family and have many sources, please contact me before any changes or additions are made".

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Kristina - I appreciate your feedback and will consider the suggestion of a 'note'. It is not that I don't want collaboration in time, just the chance to work consistently and systematically on my collection of family members and related spouses etc.

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Notes at the top like this shouldn't be added. They're antithetical to general practice at wikitree. 

A member can hold up to 5 profiles at a time for up to a week, but this is discouraged for normal work. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Hold_Requests 

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Good to know about the "Hold" process as well as the frowning upon notes. These aspects of profile creation are informative.

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I know you closed this, but I just wanted to add that at any time there are dozens of us working through suggestions lists for profiles. I'm currently working on those with no locations (which are necessary to avoid duplicates), so that means finding and adding a source and updating the location fields. The only way to prevent someone doing that is to make sure the profile is as complete as it can be :) Normally though the ones I work on haven't been touched for donkey's years, but there may be the odd one that's more recent.

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Gill: Thanks for your added perspective.  I did think that much of the editing and fine tuning being done by volunteers was just that - adding to older, seemingly inactive profiles.  As you saw, I felt mine were still in the works, having just been established.  Thanks for your efforts on the suggestion lists.

Answer 1

Collaboration is a big part of WikiTree. We all work a little differently. Some like helping new members get off to a good start to help them build their tree. Some like making contributions for the acquisition of badges. I set up bare bones and add sources and categories as I go. When I first started, I had mixed emotions about various aspects of collaborating. Not so much now, I like the additions as usually they make a connection that I may not have made. Harry Truman may have said it best. It's amazing what can be achieved if we don't care who gets the credit.

In the near future, you will hopefully connect the several profiles that are already completed, or you can make some addition to those profiles.

Comments

Thank you for your input and point of view. I have only a certain amount of time for WikiTree efforts,and yes, bare bones is the start to get all of a family set up.  Then I can focus on filling in the blanks.  Not looking for credit, just being consistent within my own efforts to ensure I haven't missed anything.

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Do as you can, as you can. That's all anyone else can do. Enjoy!

Answer 2

Wonder what a grump and ungrateful badge would look like?

Though I should never see one on WikiTree.

Sorry nothing to do with your question.

I often get a bit grumpy when I things like no reliable sources on new profiles.

Anyway happy WIkiTree ing.

Comments

 Thanks for your cheery response and wishes.

Answer 3

Keep in mind that once you submit a new profile, or changes to a profile, it's effectively published. Anyone who is watching a topic, or managing a linked profile, or tracking errors will be notified. Google will index your work

It's pretty much an impossible ask to say "if you see an error or a thinly sourced or inaccurate profile, make a note of it and remember to come back in six months to see if it's better."

I understand anyone might have their own preferred style of working, but it's worth bearing in mind, throwing things up intending to get back to it later can create work for other people.

Most times people don't get back to fix problems. It's best to do it immediately.

Comments

Hmmm...so you are saying that if I get started on adding profiles, add appropriate sources, but don't immediately also categorize, sticker-ize, write full length bios, that they can be flagged and alert others to work on them?  I must have missed that in my WikiTree Newbie orientation.

I also think you overlooked my point that I am systematically working on a branch or a family group and intend to complete the work before moving on - so not really 'throwing up things'.  

Anyways, your comments are taken under advisement and your perspective is appreciated.

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As soon as a profile is up, other people can, and should, be encouraged to work on it. Absolutely. This is explicit in the honor code, and all over the help pages. It's not even controversial.

* We collaborate: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Special:Honor_Code and it's important to realize that a profile you add in a geographic area or in a lineage or wkth a certain surname (eg) may be immediately relevant to a dozen other people

* we're encouraged to be bold: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Communication_Before_Editing because there's tons of work to do. If you see an improvement can be made, do it, or it will never be done

* There is a very limited capacity to use hold requests for up to 5 profiles for up to a week, but this is an explicit exception to the spirit of wikitree: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Hold_Requests and should only be used in tricky cases

The point is, the only way to keep a shared tree clean, and improving, is to stay on top of edits. It's all of our job to do so.

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I often work out a profile or a family ahead of time, on Ancestry or FamilySearch, before adding it to WikiTree. But if it's on the tree, if you create or adopt a profile, you might be the manager of the profile, but you are not the "owner" of the profile: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Profile_Manager

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Brad - your comments are taken as intended - highlighting the goals and efforts to maintain WikiTree 'clean' as you state.  I have researched and collaborated and contacted and learned to read another language in the 50+ years I have been building my family tree, so have invested considerable time and effort. WikiTree Help and members assistance have been appreciated as I add these profiles to honour and share and remember these ancestors. Of course I do not 'own' their profiles; I take satisfaction in having them part of the overall project.

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:) for sure. I didn't necessarily mean to target you in particular. It's a note that I hit pretty regularly, though, on threads like this. People new to this sort of work can get weirdly possessive of "their tree".

Like others have mentioned, we all agree with you that it can be jarring to work on a profile one evening and come back the next morning to see it already repeatedly edited. And definitely I understand why it's a pain to change the cadence or order of a personal workflow. But I'm just trying to emphasize that it makes sense from a functional sense, in a shared tree, with multiple research directions and functional projects.

I hope that makes sense in a functional sense.

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Brad: All the comments to date have been informative and with varying perspectives.

I am mulling over how to adapt my `personal workflow` (I like that phrase!) to complement the WikiTree functional flow!

Cheers.

Answer 4

I am in the process of adding Nambour cemetery ancestors to Wikitree and often come across profiles already added. I will add sources if I feel it helps the profile though will abstain if someone has done a lot of work on it already. Any inline sources that I use can always be changed to suit the PM, my only goal is to add the sources so they are known. I do not remove any relevant details in doing so nor do I change the formatting if much work has already been done. Any doubts about what I want to do I will leave a message. Enthusiasm should always be tempered with caution.

Cheers, Rich

Comments

Hello Rich:  So you are using cemetery listings as a start and a source and that often leads to existing profiles?  I can understand that approach and note that you do message the PM, which I expect is welcomed.  

I just felt a bit like - whoa - I was getting to that! when my work was being done for me.

As I mentioned, when I have a puzzle or query, I ask and have always received timely and helpful feedback, so do appreciate collaboration.

Cheers back.

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Yes I am working through the Nambour listings on Find A Grave. There are many that I cannot get accurate sources for because of inadequate recorded info or lack of a gravestone. There is a lot of mistakes recorded there. I confirm any sources through official transcriptions. Currently working through the 'B's so a long way to go. Quite a few already have a WikiTree profile.

I add any sources if it enhances a basic profile, though try not to create any interference with a well established, formatted profile. If I ever add to one of your bare bones profiles, it will be with relevant inline sources and of course, up to you to use them in any way you think fit.

Collaboration and respect is the key here. It is possible that many contributions to profiles are made by inexperienced members. Unfortunately it happens. Appreciate your work to build the Wiki Tree.

Cheers, Rich

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Similar to Rich, I am working though cemetery listings for Category: Millville Cemetery, Millville, Pennsylvania where my grandfather was born and where (one of) his cenotaph resides. I traverse the linked relationships from the Find A Grave memorials with photos and keep going -- usually until I hit the county line, plus 1 more relationship. If that ends me at a person with a spouse, I'll add them too so they're not "lonely". (From time to time I'll also add those profiles without grave photos, but only if I can find a source to back it up.)

I do this primarily because about half my lines have resided in that county and neighboring counties since the 17th/18th centuries. These are small town rural communities so it's one of those "everybody's related" kind of places. Adding in these folks helps interconnect the web and reveal new relationships that otherwise aren't readily apparent.

And I do this secondarily because when I was a new member, I remember how overwhelming the task of getting connected up to the Big Tree seemed to be. I had one exception on my mother's side, a great-grandmother had already been created (it turns out, because she closely related to a notable person that I'd only recently discovered). The rest that did connect up, I had to go back quite a ways (and some I still haven't been able to). I'm hoping I can make that process a little easier for my cousins, some of whom I've yet to meet.

I noticed in the last two weeks some folks have seen the new profiles I've created and started submitting edits to them. I'm overjoyed to know there's others interested in these folks! I hope I haven't taken some joy from them in creating them, but at the same time... I don't know how I'd know that this specific person has descendants, on WikiTree, who were interested in creating their profile but haven't been able to find the time to do it yet. You know? :\

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Rich:  thanks again for sharing your approach and process. I appreciate your efforts to encourage my work and how you respectfully add to profiles.

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Jeff: Hello!  Yes - you were the very active `thoner`who added a spouse of my great aunt who had Pennsylvania roots, and added my great aunt as well.  I appreciated your prompt response when I queried what your connection was, as I hoped to find some family connections.

I did take that opportunity to then connect my great aunt to my great-grandparents, etc.  She was in the wings waiting to be added as I worked through that large family.  So I do understand your perspective of `how would you know`.  This is a bit different from the feeling that I wasn`t being efficient or investing enough time in my newly created profiles once I barely had them up and still adding to them.

Anyways, I have had tremendous input from my initial comments and that speaks volumes for the interest in sharing info and perspective from WikiTreers!

Answer 5

Hi C. I sympathise with your point of view, but I think the solution may be not to leave profiles incomplete. Instead, you could consider doing all the research beforehand, then creating each profile all in one go, including everything you have discovered. You can even prepare the full biography text for a series of profiles in an offline file, then just paste that in in one hit as you create each one. That way there won't be a window of time during which others may be tempted to add things which you had intended to do yourself eventually.

Comments

Jim - you are offering a very practical approach which I may have to adopt. I have all the research for each person I am adding - years and years of research and pouring through church records, etc.  Much of it is on Family Search and that is where I do cut and paste and reference many of my sources.  

My approach was set up my grandparents, then their parents and then add the siblings to ensure I had them all set up, with basic sources, then go in and write bios and add categories etc.

The ``connection`` activities seem to be at odds in a way when members add as many profiles as they can with limited sources, but I assume that then opens the doors for others to add on as they discover sources etc.

All useful comments.  Thanks.

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Hi C.
I do my work on WikiTree similiar as described here. I have 22 years of work to add to WikiTree, nearly all sourced. Adding all this work to WikiTree takes ages, but this lead me to the decision that ideally I don't want to return to a profile. So when adding a branch to WikiTree, I might be adding only 4 profiles at one evening, because I'm adding all names and fields, all sources, at least a short biography and categories.
Tip: if you leave the biography field empty, then save, it will create a basic biography with birth, parents (if you add a child to existing parents) and death. I then add marriage, spouse, number of children, profession, age at death. Mostly, I don't have more information anyway.

For my Italian branches I have the problem that I saved the source images to my offline software years ago, without the source citation. Now for Wiki use a template for the source citation, but I'm missing the link to the source. I started a document with the profiles that need the link, to add it later. Some profiles had the link added by another member, which is not what I planned, but it was nice of that member. We are all contributing to the tree.

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I. Caruso:  Your comments and explanation of your approach is useful and appreciated.  I do know about leaving bio field empty, as I do return when I can focus on telling the stories rather than entering dates and names etc.

I empathize with you about the offline software challenge without links.  My sources go back to the `olden days` of forums and sharing family info and suggestions based on surname searches.  I miss that, as it led to many connections with my spouse`s distant and at the time, unknown cousins.  Times move on.

Cheers.

Answer 6

It does depend on what sort of categories are being added. If it is cemetery categories then it is likely to have a FindAGrave reference on the profiles and there is a report that suggests that a profile is missing the category when it has a FindAGrave link. So people may be working that report and not realize that a profile is Bare Bones due to the PM's other priorities.

The other one that may be getting added is a One Name Study type category. Those profiles would show up on peoples followed tags and sometimes people add them without communication first.

If the profiles are recent then an option is to use a privacy level other than open until you feel a profile is to your standard. If it is open then it is free for anyone to work on however they may find it. Personally I don't mind if someone adds a category or sources to a profile provided the category or source actually belongs for that profile. A lot of my working on profiles have had cemetery categories added to them.

Comments

I advise against using this approach. Utilizing privacy controls as a method to prevent edits is specifically disallowed.

Edit: typo.

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Darren:  thanks for adding additional info about the other approaches to adding sources, categories, etc. to profiles.

There must be a vast number of WikiTreers who have already added their trees and do have time to work on these projects and studies.  I may eventually get there.

Cheers.

Answer 7

I wanted to leave an answer yesterday, but I decided to wait to see what other WTers might add, and they have pretty well covered the bases here.

I know it's frustrating and the very same thing happened to me when I was new in WikiTree. I thought, "Why in the heck is this person adding things to this profile I created YESTERDAY?" and "how did they find it?"

Well, there are reports and feeds...suggestion reports, cemetery reports, category feeds, changes feeds. As others have pointed out, there are those who follow these feeds and reports. If your nearly-new bare-bones profiles show up in these feeds, WTers will often show up to add categories, correct something, provide a short biography, or whatever. This is in the name of collaboration.

Collaboration is great, but does have a few drawbacks, especially when a well-meaning fellow WTer makes  a change that isn't quite right or isn't very informing. You are free, as the PM, to revert the change or expand upon it.  If you have close relatives with bare-bones profiles and they're under the limits for open profiles, I'd advise you to change their privacy level so they can't be edited by anyone but you. I usually reserve this for profiles up to about 4 degrees from myself. (Like, I'd be irked if someone tried to work on my parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, etc. and they touch upon privacy issues with living persons.)  But I'd also be open to anyone offering information or pointing out an error that exists on their profiles, and I'd perform the edit myself.

Anyway, thank you for pointing out that even though collaboration is our way of life in WT, a bit of respect should accompany it.

Comments

Natalie:  I appreciate you advising me of the various feeds, reports etc. which bring profiles to others` attention for action.

Sharing your experiences is helpful as well.  I do feel you understand what I was voicing in my initial post.  

Thank you.

Answer 8

4 years ago through the UPM process I adopted about 100 profiles all in the same family, my husband's ancestors, all created by the same person, all created by Gedcom in 2012, the PM had not been active since the profiles were created. They were all Green privacy, with no biographies and no sources.

The family is a typical one for the 1800s, many branches, often with up to 4 or more people in various family branches with the same first names born about the same time, Joseph, William, John, Elizabeth, Mary, Jane etc.

Many of the relationships were incorrect.

I had been researching the family and collaborating with other family members for about 7 years on Ancestry and FS.

I knew it was going to take time to improve and source the profiles. And as a relative newbie at the time I wanted to do it properly.

Under the biography heading I put this sentence' recently adopted profile, will be sourced and improved'

It took a long time at least 6 months to 'fix' the profiles. I wouldn't add such a note now, but also I have never since run into such a collection of inaccurate profiles.

The family obviously had not been of interest to other WT members over the years as none of the profiles had been edited since 2012.

Today if I think it necessary to say something about a family I put it under Research Notes.

Such as ' Be careful, this family has many branches, many of the family members share the same first name and were born about the same time. This person born 1843 is not the same as that person with the same name born 1844.'

Comments

M. Ross:  Congratulations on your persistence and diligence in getting all those folks sorted and organized and accurately profiled!

I too am working, on my spouse`s American side, with many, many branches which extend back to the mid 1700s, mostly based on family trees discovered online or shared through forum connections.

It is painstaking for sure to find reliable, verifiable sources, which is why I hoped WikiTree would be beneficial.  So far, not so much, but perhaps once I get the profiles set up, others will come along.  I have no personal information to add, only the efforts to ensure sources are valid for the correct people. (That is one reason Family Search can be frustrating.  At least I can message folks to ask why!)

Cheers.

Answer 9

C,

Thought your username looked familiar so looked back through emails. Wanted to pop in and say that I took a peek at the profiles for Edgar & Ella. They're looking pretty snazzy. Kudos! :)

Jeff

Comments

Hi Jeff:  Thanks - that particular great aunt, Ella Deputan Coleman, was a prime asset for her family history.  Even with her painful arthritis, she carefully wrote out as much as she could recall about her parents and each sibling and spouse. She wrote that she often had to stop to cry over a memory that came over her.  Special people, gone too soon.  Lessons learned to reach out to elders when you can, but be aware that recollections can be traumatic.

Answer 10

I hear you.  I have inherited a work practice from my father, whose last job description was ''time and motion study agent'', ie an efficiency expert.  Basically, when creating a profile, do the whole thing in one go.  Bio, sources, categories etc.  That way, it's complete, and you can then proceed to the next one on your list.  And cannot find yourself in the situation of forgetting to go back to one of them, or having someone else come along as you desccribe above.

I am still cleaning up profiles from when I first joined WikiTree many years ago, and brought my existing tree in via GEDCom.  Takes a whole lot of time, having to re-find the sources (which often did not upload with the GEDCom), fix anything erroneous, etc etc etc.

Comments

Danielle:  Thanks for sharing your experiences and rationale for your approach.  Hope you see the light at the end of the tunnel for those profiles.  For me it will take ages to work through the family branches; slowly but steadily.

Cheers.