Comments on Robert (Welles) de Welles

+7 votes
106 views

The three sons of Welles-324 are actually all the same person. This was spotted some time ago but the merges are stuck. In Burkes he was apparently called William, but Complete Peerage and other sources now call him Robert. There are also two versions of his wife, one misunderstands her married name as an LNAB. The merge of those wives has also been rejected. 

What makes this more important is that there are several generations of descendants which are also duplicated - a Burkes line and a Complete Peerage line. Typically when we have a whole line needing merges we want to start at the top so that we don't permanently disconnect a profile from the tree by accident. So there is quite a lot of work to be done, and this has been identified some time ago, but we can not move ahead with the first steps, because the Burkes type profiles are poorly sourced and not easy to equate to ANY profile. (One has no dates at all, somehow.)

This is one of those cases where Wikitree in effect seems to demand that profiles need to look the same, and both have good sources, before a merge is allowed. This means that poorly sourced profiles can get stuck. In practice what therefore happens is that we need to first copy what is on the better article, and make all the profiles look identical and then the merge is simple and obvious.

HOWEVER, I've also seen this approach criticized here on Wikitree, as incorrect. So should we just make all the profiles identical first, in order to get merges approved, or not?

On 12 Apr 2024 Andrew Lancaster wrote on Welles-316:

This profile 316 does have good sources. 601 is a mistaken version of this profile, so if this is a reason not to merge then we are stuck in a Catch 22. What should we do with 601? There are no real details on 601 except the family connections and the first name, so there is no real conflict of information. (Note that the name of this profile here was already corrected from William to Robert.) Potentially we can adapt 601 to match this profile and let the merge go ahead but I know many wikitreers see that as an incorrect approach. If we do not merge 601 then we just need to cut it loose from the real people. However, the wife and descendants of 601 will all need to be merged to this line, and while it is not clear what to do with their ancestor this process could be held up?

WikiTree profile: Robert de Welles
in Policy and Style by Andrew Lancaster G2G6 Pilot (142k points)

1 Answer

+4 votes
No, you should not make them all the same.  The profile manager of the one child you do not manage has not been on WT since July 2023, and they are all Open, so the merge could go ahead.  However, the merge was only proposed today (12th April) so you will need to wait for it to become default.
by Ros Haywood G2G Astronaut (2.0m points)
Hi Ros. I think it was rejected today and then moved to an unmerged match.

I wouldn't be discouraged from the merge by a newbie who is not on the TL and probably doesn't have a full grasp of merging on WT. While the person who rejected it may seem "to demand that profiles need to look the same, and both have good sources, before a merge is allowed," WikiTree does not. You may want to have a conversation with her, but it's perfectly fine to re-initiate the merge, perhaps addressing her concerns when you do so.

To be clear, I am indeed not at all worried about anything specific people have done.

Clearly this all with good intentions, and these cases confuse me too, and not just newbies. :)

I just thought it might be a case worth asking for opinions about, just to make sure of best practice. So thanks for your feedback.
When I propose a merge between duplicates where only one of them is well sourced, I'll include a notation in the explanation saying something to the effect of: "Please use the data and sources on Smith-12345..."
Yes that might have helped in this case Jillaine. This response is partly intended to help new editors:

It is not an excuse but sometime I quickly fix lines up while I am working on another line (or lines). In this case I added quite a few comments and references to the family as a whole but the specific one where the misunderstanding happened only has minimal explanation on it (including links to better sources). A few extra words might have made things go more smoothly.

Coming from the other direction, we all have to work on profiles with a lot worse explanations. So best practice is to try to assess the whole context of a merge proposal if things are not clear. In other words: have a glance at the related profiles, sources, etc.

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