Is it safe to remove the "Uncertain" Indicator off his parents?

+3 votes
237 views
I am descended from Thomas Palmer, son of Edward Palmer and Merial Palmer.  It would really be huge news if we could finally remove the Uncertain indicator.
WikiTree profile: Thomas Palmer
in Genealogy Help by Zacchary David G2G3 (3.0k points)
retagged by Julie Ricketts
If the rest of his family lived in Gloucestershire, how was he  born in East Riding, Yorkshire? That's a distance of 150 miles. It would take a week to travel that far.
Not impossible.
I have an ancestor who was born in Cumberland, England (west coast), yet married in County Durham (east coast).
Maybe the birth is wrong?  Isn't there a database that tells you how many reported Thomas Palmer's born during that time have been reported in England?  I gurantee not many.
In freereg, 49 Thomas Palmers baptised in England 1580-1600. There were probably a lot more than that, since there are no surviving and indexed christening records of most of the people born at that time.

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_queries/660285e7b18f7c78eea29890?locale=en
"Not impossible" is not the same as "really happened".
What can we do to finally confirm this?
It might be helpful to investigate the 1629 will, which is given as fact on his profile, but it was proved 24 May 1630 and he is said to have held office in America 1631/1632. The will leaves tobacco to three sons, unnamed, and there are five named daughters but no Priscilla. It also names a Captain Gardner, and witnesses Thomas Williams and Thomas Jones, so it may be possible to find further information. At least some of these children were probably born in England, given the dates. The bequest of tobacco indicates a Virginia connection, so if this is a different person, at least it would be helpful in disentangling the different Thomas Palmers in Virginia.

I've added US Southern Colonies to the tags on this question. The profile is in serious need of consolidating information acquired through various merges, much of which is repetition. Has Betty Norman's Comment from 2021 been addressed: "The death date and location should probably be changed to 29 Dec 1629 in England. See what historian Martha W. McCartney had to say ("Virginia Immigrants" in Photo Column) and will of Thomas Palmer, probated in England." The McCartney article which is well-sourced appears that it could serve as the outline for consolidating the info on the profile. I think the key for the citation shorthand on the article can probably be seen in the limited google digitized version.

Looking at the executor of the will may offer clues too.

I think people are jumping the gun looking for parents of Thomas. Looking for children of Thomas (or, more correctly, parents of the children) would be more apt.

From the 1629 will, we don’t know what that Thomas’ sons were called, or where they were, or where Thomas was for that matter. And from the sources available on the profiles (if they are correct) it doesn’t appear the will writer is the same Thomas as the one with a daughter named Priscilla. (?)

As Lynn Drasdo mentions, establishing how many Thomas Palmers were in the area is the first port of call.

1 Answer

+12 votes
 
Best answer


The profile for Thomas Palmer does not contain any sources that I can see that help identify his date of birth or his place of birth. The solid facts that I can find are:

  1. From Hotten's Original Lists of Persons of Quality:
    'The living in Virginia" 16 February 1623/24: Thomas Palmer, Mrs Palmer, filia Palmer. (p.171)
    The Muster of Virginia, 23 January 1624/25: Thomas Palmer arrived in the Tyger November 1621. Joane his wife in the same shipp. Prisilla her daughter aged xj yeares. Servant's: Richard English aged xj yeares in the James 1622. (p.210)
  2. John Baker was granted land on 20 November 1637, including "50 [acres] due in right of his first wife Priscilla Palmer, 50 acs. by deed of guift from his Mother in Law Jone Palmer 2 Jan. 1633 & 550 acs. due for his own per adv., the per adv. of his late wife Alice, of his wife Dorothy ..." (Nugent, Nell Marion. Cavaliers and pioneers; abstracts of Virginia land patents and grants, 1623-1800. Page 75.) This shows that Priscilla married John Baker but was dead by 1637. Joan would not have made a grant in her own name unless she was a widow, so Thomas was dead by 2 January 1633/34. 
  3. McCartney's Virginia Immigrants and Adventurers 1607-1635 Page 531 Google books partial view. This asserts "Although Thomas Palmer was elected Shirley Hundred's burgess and was supposed to representent the community in the March 1630 session of the assembly, he became mortally ill while enroute to England and died on December 29, 1629" and also mentions the will below. She cites: S of N #431; CBE 36, 51; MCGC 44, 51, 192-193; HEN 1:138, 147; SR 3959. I haven't been able to decipher all these abbreviations, but I find it difficult to reconcile all the statements and facts I have been able to find.
    1. The will of Thomas Palmer, dated 9 December 1629 and proved in London 24 May 1630 (online at Ancestry  or the National Archives) makes bequests:
      • eldest son: gold rings and 1 cwt tobacco
      • second son: 1 cwt tobacco
      • third son: 2 cwt tobacco
      • eldest daughter Gertrude: 2 cwt tobacco
      • daughter Johan: 2 cwt tobacco
      • daughter Elizabeth: 2 cwt tobacco
      • youngest daughter: Mary 2 cwt tobacco
      • Captain Gardner:  ironspit, pair of andirons, goose pan, a pair of tongs and fleshhooks
      • George Jerman: the residue and made executor
  • Witnesses: Thomas Williams, Thomas Jones
  • His residence is not given. It does not mention the known daughter of Thomas of Shirley Hundred, Priscilla, nor his wife Joan who we know outlived him. This does not look like the will of Thomas of Shirley Hundred to me. Can any of the legatees or witnesses be identfied? Captain Gardner might be Edward Gardiner of Shirley Hundred in 1624.
  • McCartney states that George Jerman was 'of London' but this is not stated in the will and would not be necessary as probate could be obtained by proxy, which would not be recorded in the probate sentence at this date.

5. MCGC: Minutes of the Council and General Court: the references are in 1625 and March 1628/29 and do no mention relatives

6. HEN: Hening's Statutes at Large of Virginia gives for general assemblies:

  • 16 Oct 1629 "Were present as follows ... For Shirley Hundred Maine Mr Thomas Parker ..." (p.138)
  • 24 Mar 1629/30 "At which were present, viz. ... For Shirley Hundred Maine Thomas Parker ..." (p.148)
  • On the face of it, this seems to suggest he was present in Virginia in March 1629/30, which is at odds with the idea that he died the preceding December.


Questions:

  • Where does McCartney get the precise death date from?
  • His profile states without source that "He was a Justice appointed in March 1631/32 for the monthly courts for the upper parts of the counties of Charles City and Henrico". Is this true? If so the 1629 will is irrelevant.

To locate his origins in England, I think the will needs to be more conclusively linked to the Thomas of Shirley Hundred. If this can be done then the key to finding his origin is finding records for the four named daughters, particularly Gertrude as this is an unusual name, and Mary as she is the youngest and therefore born after Priscilla who was born about 1613, but she does not seem to have emigrated to Virginia. Otherwise the best route is to identify Priscilla's baptism.

I've compiled this on and off over a few hours, so apologies as it repeats some earlier comments.

by Andrew Millard G2G6 Pilot (118k points)
selected by Maggie N.

Related questions

+3 votes
0 answers
484 views asked Jul 21, 2023 in Genealogy Help by Kim Goforth G2G6 (9.2k points)
+6 votes
2 answers
+5 votes
3 answers
+4 votes
1 answer
+7 votes
1 answer
139 views asked Dec 8, 2023 in WikiTree Tech by Gus Gassmann G2G6 Mach 4 (48.8k points)
+4 votes
0 answers
+5 votes
3 answers
+23 votes
1 answer
253 views asked Aug 6, 2023 in WikiTree Tech by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (463k points)

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...