Portugal 400s

+2 votes
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Looking for info on Portugall circa 4000.  Found this so far:

A_Short_History_of_Spain_and_Portugal.pdf (stanford.edu) and Hermeric - Wikipedia    would he be considered an empire leader for that time period?

Thanks for any help 

in The Tree House by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (837k points)
retagged by John Atkinson
I don't think the 4000s have happened yet.
yes typo. one too many 0.....  just not used to 3 digit years...   I corrected the headline.

1 Answer

+4 votes

Hi Laura
I think it's difficult to discuss Portugal as a separate country during the early medieval period because the borders changed so frequently under various invaders.  The Wikipedia article Iberian Peninsula has some maps of the BCE and Medieval periods which gives a good indication of this.

Charles Cawley's Medieval Lands has a section on the Kings of the Suevi  starting with Hermanrich or Hermerico

by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (624k points)
Thanks John.  Am doing what I can to help a very smart preteen do a project on Portugal for an international awareness day event.  .  So she wants to know who was a leader of what we now call Portugal around 400 as she is working backwards in time.
As I understand it the Suebians were established there a few years after 400. Basically the area was still nominally under Roman control. In the years after 400 various non Roman forces were allowed to settle in different parts of western Europe inside the empire. They were however not simply invaders but also involved in Roman factional politics.

The Suebi entered the empire by crossing the Rhine in 405 or 406. They allied themselves with the Roman Gerontius.
Thank you Andrew,   yes that tracks with the information in the link i posted from Standford.  They kind of acted as  go-between among various Germanic tribes.  What we are wondering is if Hermerico the king of the Suevi can be considered an empire  maker or if that process rally came centuries later.  Doe someone ho essentially brokers cooperation and peace among disparate tribes create an environment that leads to  a later empire?
We really don't know anything exact about this group before the crossing of the Rhine. The three groups who crossed were described as Suebi/Suevi, Vandals (Hasdings and Silings) and Alans. It seems likely that they had first gotten together somewhere in the area of modern Austria, Czechia, Slovakia and Hungary, where various Vandals and Suebi had lived for centuries, and where Alans (and Goths) were amassing in this exact period, partly under pressure from the Huns, who were not yet under Attila's rule. At some point, the Huns themselves moved into position near this part of the Roman frontier.

Each of the groups who went to Spain came to be led by "kings" but we don't know if they started out that way. Also, we don't really know what exactly "king" meant to the Roman writers who used the term in these years. The word had long been out of fashion, but it is was suddenly brought back to describe men who were, at least in the case of Alaric the Visigoth, originally seen as Roman military leaders over groups of recently immigrated barbarian soldiers, and their families, moving around within the Roman empire.

There is debate among historians these days about whether such kings owed their positions to their Roman status. The older idea, which is now doubted, was that these kings were simply just the legitimate heirs of families who had been ruling over the exact same peoples outside the empire. They probably did come from noble families, but it probably wasn't so simple.

To put it simply, these peoples were probably not simply from outside of the Roman world, but rather from the militarized border, where barbarians were amassed. At first many of them were recruited into the Roman military, but after 400 leaders such as Alaric, began to be seen as kings of barbarian peoples, and not just generals ruling over mixed barbarian Roman forces. This is clearly because they started had started acting more independently, having been unable to get themselves considered as Romans.

So it was probably mainly the Romans who were originally the "go betweens" who created these amalgamations who they then used in their military. People like Hermeric had probably worked, together with his soldiers, for Rome. It was the Romans themselves who also seem to have developed the idea of giving such groups a part of the empire where they could live.

To what extent did these new kings see themselves as legitimate military governors of Roman provinces? In fact that seems to be the main way they presented themselves at first. Of course the Romans were not making it simple though, because they were by this time constantly fighting each other in factions, and the military units were constantly being called upon to take sides. It was often no longer clear who the proper boss was, above the leaders of various military units (both Roman and non-Roman).
Thanks.  I find this period in time one of the most convoluted with so little available in terms of records and when you stumble upon something written it is often considered biased reporting.  Rome contolled the money, the powera nd the narrative for centuries.
Yes, and their military was being outsourced. It was a big moment. Historically, being in the Roman military made you Roman. But the way the situation evolved, being in the military could sometimes give you a barbarian (non Roman) ethnic identity. The idea of being in the Roman military seems to have more or less merged with the idea of being from one of the barbarian ethnic military groups within the empire. This of course leads to the early medieval world.

Kingdom of the Suebi - Wikipedia   some interesting sources toward the bottom.  What I find fascinating is Portugal is not listed as a country until History of Portugal - Wikipedia  1179

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