Could I request some help from someone with access to England Birth and Death records?

Question

There is no rush, but I want to put it out there for when someone has time to spare.

I am researching my grandmother, Clarice Gwendolyne Henley.

Her parents are Stephen Henley-2259 and Edith Hart-20381.

I don't know when Stephen & Edith married, but according to the Death Reg., they were parents to:

Edith Matilda - 1885

Annie Elizabeth - 1886

Charles Stephen - 1888

George Augustus - 1890

Joseph Reginald - not known, but the 1911 Census estimates 1892

but WAIT, there's more!

Clarice Gwendolyne - 1901

- I'd like to know Joseph's dob

- were there more in between Joe and Clarice - any stillborns, died youngs, etc..

- I've always thought Gram was a twin, so is there another baby born 24 June 1901, but died young?

- Since Clarice is so much younger than Joe, and Mum was already 43, was she an unexpected addition / change-of-life-baby, or is it possible that she was actually a child of the oldest daughter? Edith Matilda never married, and lived with her mum all her life.

Heck, I don't even know for sure when the parents were born! Edith Hart Henley's Death Reg. says 30 Aug 1857, as does her WT profile, however, her headstone says 1858.

I also never knew Gram had all those sibs. I don't think I ever even heard them mentioned, except Aunt Edith - we knew her. Weird, but most of them did die before my birth, or when I was young.

Thank you for any help, but as stated, no rush - I'm have to work on my Income Taxes.

Comments

The 1911 census says there were 6 children and all were still living so you have all of them. Sharing link (apart from a very few cemetery and parish records, there wasn't any official registration of stillbirths until until 1927 and these records aren't public.

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Thank you, Helen, I appreciate the info.

Answer 1

The birth registration for Joseph Reginald was in the Apr-May-Jun quarter of 1891. You can find this on the GRO.

HENLEY, JOSEPH  REGINALD	HART
GRO Reference: 1891  J Quarter in LEWISHAM  Volume 01D  Page 1222

I don't see a source for his exact date of birth.

It does not look like Clarice was a twin. There are no other birth registrations at that time. Clarice's is:

HENLEY, CLARICE  GWENDOLINE	HART
GRO Reference: 1901  S Quarter in LEWISHAM  Volume 01D  Page 1254

There are no birth registrations between Joseph and Clarice that I can see.

Comments

You can buy Joseph's record through the GRO, which should have his DOB and more interesting information on it as well.

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Thanks so much, Rob.

Answer 2

The general register office is the place to start:
HENLEY, CLARICE  GWENDOLINE       HART     
GRO Reference: 1901  S Quarter in LEWISHAM  Volume 01D  Page 1254
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp Note that you have to register but it's free, and spellings can sometimes be way out, so search with as few details as possible. only adding some to narrow it down.
From there you can order birth, marriage and death certificates, the birth and death certificates can be ordered as digital images which is much cheaper.

Comments

What I do to find other siblings, is to just enter the surname, set the date for +/- 2 years and with the mother's maiden name.

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Thank you, Gill.

I have now reg'd for GRO, and will use your suggestion of adding time to the dates.

Answer 3

I've updated Clarice's profile with the GRO record:  Clarice's birth was registered in the Jul-Aug-Sep quarter of 1901 in the Lewisham district.<ref>

'''Birth Registration''':

"England & Wales General Register Office"<br/>

[https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp?index=EW_Birth&year=1901&range=0&surname=HENLEY&motherssurname=HART&forename1=CLARICE&forename2=GWENDOLINE&gender=F&quarter=S&district=LEWISHAM&volume=01D&page=1254 GRO Online Indexes - Birth] (accessed 12 February 2024)<br/>

Henley, Clarice Gwendoline (Mother's maiden name: Hart).<br/>

''GRO Reference:'' 1901 Jul-Aug-Sep in [https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/lewisham.html Lewisham] Volume 01D Page 1254.

</ref>

I suspect this is Edith's, as it's an easy misreading in transcription:  

Edith's birth was registered in the Jul-Aug-Sep quarter of 1885 in the Camberwell district.<ref>

'''Birth Registration''':

"England & Wales General Register Office"<br/>

[https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp?index=EW_Birth&year=1885&range=0&surname=HERLEY&motherssurname=HART&forename1=EDITH&forename2=MATILDA&gender=F&quarter=S&district=CAMBERWELL&volume=01D&page=832 GRO Online Indexes - Birth] (accessed 12 February 2024)<br/>

Herley, Edith Matilda (Mother's maiden name: Hart).<br/>

''GRO Reference:'' 1885 Jul-Aug-Sep in [https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/camberwell.html Camberwell] Volume 01D Page 832.

</ref>

Comments

Here's Annie: Annie's birth was registered in the Jul-Aug-Sep quarter of 1886 in the Camberwell district.<ref>

'''Birth Registration''':

"England & Wales General Register Office"<br/>

[https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp?index=EW_Birth&year=1886&range=0&surname=HENLEY&motherssurname=HART&forename1=ANNIE&forename2=ELIZABETH&gender=F&quarter=S&district=CAMBERWELL&volume=01D&page=881 GRO Online Indexes - Birth] (accessed 12 February 2024)<br/>

Henley, Annie Elizabeth (Mother's maiden name: Hart).<br/>

''GRO Reference:'' 1886 Jul-Aug-Sep in [https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/camberwell.html Camberwell] Volume 01D Page 881.

</ref>

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If you click on the link, it will take you to the search (once you've made an account/logged in) and then you can fiddle around with the settings, which is all I'm doing--expand the scope to cover more years, remove the first name, and then run it for males and then females and then change the years and try it again.  

When you *know* there are other kids and they're not coming up, like Edith, you can try the name settings other than exact, but sometimes they're overwhelming and no help.  

You can also use FreeBMD.org (https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl?type=Births&start=1886&sq=1&end=1886&eq=4&surname=Henley&given=Annie%20Elizabeth&vol=01D&pgno=881)  but that doesn't have the Mother's maiden name listed until after 1911, so it's not as useful, but it can help you find something there and then use Sourcer to find it on the GRO site.

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Thanks so much, Celia.

I appreciate all you've done.  

I've reg'd for GRO now, and will be able to start fiddling with it.  I've had almost no luck anytime I've searched the BMD.

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I find it a lot less useful 90% of the time because I don't know england well enough to know what the registration districts are, but the ability to do wildcard searches can be super effective, and if you know where they're born or they're not common last names, it can work really well.  otherwise it can be incredibly frustrating, but GOOD NEWS so is the GRO. :)  Still, when it works, it's awesome and unbelievably helpful for our purposes.

Answer 4

I added a UK census record to the father Stephen Henley that says he was born in about 1859 in Portslade, Sussex.

Answer 5

Stephen Henley and Edith Hart were married at St Philip and St James, Oxford on 2nd June 1884

Stephen was aged 25 and a bachelor, his occupation was Chemist and Druggist. His residence at the time of the marriage was Stepney and his father was John Henley a Corn Dealer.

Edith was aged 26 and a spinster.  Her residence at the time of the marriage was Woodstock Road and her father was Charles Hart (deceased), a harness maker.

They both signed the register and their witnesses were George Towers, John Wm Henley, Alice Albright and Fanny Green.

Looking at the 1861 census on Stephen Henley's profile, I would suggest that the place of birth for his siblings and also his father, John, is actually Rottingdean in Sussex, not Nottingdean.

There is a birth registration for a Stephen Henley in Q1 1859 in the Steyning district (Sussex) with the mother's maiden name of Leppard and there is a marriage at Rottingdean Sussex on 12th June 1848 for

John Henley of full age, a bachelor and a labourer, his residence at the time of marriage was Beeding parish.  His father was John Henley a labourer and

Matilda Leppard of full age and a spinster, her residence at the time of marriage was Rottingdean.  Her father was William Leppard, a labourer.

They both signed the register and their witnesses were William Leppard (X made his mark) and Sarah Henley (X made her mark).

Comments

Thank you so much, Anon. Baker.

I appreciate the time you've taken to help.

I guess if his birth reg. was Q1 of 1859, he could still have been born in late 1858, like it says on his headstone.

Answer 6

Wow, thank you all so much!

I guess I misunderstood, and thought that it was just a pay site that some people might be members of.  I have tried the BMD, and found nothing for results.  I have now registered for the GRO.

I do appreciate all the info, and will work on adding / filling out the profiles as need be.

Thank you again.  Brenda