Comments on Jesse Carroll Sr - SAR v. DAR v. FindAGrave

Question

Death

Some attribute his Sampson County, North Carolina death to be after 10 Mar 1802[2] (DAR) and others, 18 Aug 1801.[1] (SAR):

18 Aug 1801 is SAR, 10 Mar 1802 is DAR, and 1809 is FindAGrave, which states: 

"Jesse was born on Six Runs Creek abt 1743. He married Mary Rachel Gavin."

"Jesse and his wife were listed as deceased members of Rowan Baptist Church."
Citing Minute Books of Rowan Baptist Church, 1790-1856.

It would seem the minutes would be accurate, barring any transcription error. Perhaps the other dates belong to a different Jesse/belong to a will date?

The parentage issue seems to be resolved. Since SAR was describing a Jesse Carroll of Granville, then their information might explain the origin of what was conflated, and might need some minor adjustments (the birth year is consistent with what is present, but the death year may be latter, per FindAGrave, that describes a Rowan Baptist Church Cemetery burial in Clinton, Sampson Co., and as mentioned, the church's minute books. (A direct citation would be helpful.)

If someone is going to update a descendant application to SAR, perhaps the Granville birth location and other discrepancies can be reconciled. The location in which the FindAGrave birth is consistent is Six Run Creek, New Hanover County (at the time), NC, which later became Duplin, then Sampson County. Notoriously, FindAGrave uses the present location name, rather than the historic name at the time of an event. Jesse is known to have lived and died in what became Sampson County.

Greg's work on sorting this out is much appreciated, especially regarding identifying the correct lineage; i.e., that William of Granville County was not his father.

A citation on the John Carroll (died 1761) and genetic proof (Y-DNA) would be a great statement to add to the Research Notes, or in a DNA Confirmation Statement, if a standard for accepting Y-DNA proofs has been established.

On 25 Jul 2023 Greg Lamberson wrote on Carroll-2279:

Unfortunately this is not the correct Jesse Carroll who was the son of William of Granville. This Jesse was the son of John who died 1761 in Duplin. This Jesse had no connection to William or any of his family. They have proven to be a genetically distinct and completely separate family.

Answer 1

Regarding Jesse Carroll's birth information, I'm currently finishing up research for a book on this Carroll family I hope to publish later this year.

I'm comfortable with a statement that his birth was around 1743 or perhaps slightly earlier, probably in North Carolina. Beyond this I'm not prepared to say at the moment. Why?

Jesse Carroll starts to appear in Duplin County records in the 1760s as a witness to other deeds and as a party in land transactions. To be a party in land transactions one had to be 21 years of age. This is a strict rule, and I've never seen this rule flouted personally. Regarding witnessing deeds, I have heard conflicting statements indicating one could be 16, 18, or again, 21. So I'm not sure about the standard to apply in such cases.

As to Jesse's place of birth, I am confident of Jesse's identity as son of John who died in 1761 in Duplin County. I think the evidence presented on his profile here supports his being in Duplin from the 1760s through the end of his life and in direct conflict with any possibility he was the son of William who died in 1782 in Granville County (around 50 miles away, not next door).

As a further bit of evidence refuting Jesse's identity as William's son I'll note that William, when writing his will in 1782, mentions that when his son Jesse "reaches the age of 21," clearly implying he has not yet reached that age, it seems obvious this Jesse son of William is a different person. There is other evidence as well, but I won't digress further.

Now, back to the place of birth. There is some ambiguity I can't account for in the period from about 1750-1767 as to where John (d. 1761) and his family were located. In his will he bequeaths the place "whereon I now live" to his oldest son, John (d. 1804).

The problem is that John owned no property that can be determined at the time of his death. There are clear indications he was living in the area of Six Runs by the witnessing of other deeds and other transactions he's involved in. He's almost certainly living in that neighborhood (I've done an intensive study of all the deeds and transactions in this area during this period). But he holds no title to any lands in 1761. None.

The deed record is comprehensive for Duplin County at this time. There is no record loss. There is no shoddy bookkeeping. There is also no land unaccounted for or unmapped. Detailed maps of every land grant for this area are available at the Sampson County Historical Society, thanks to the amazing work of local researcher Thomas Byrd. The subsequent record for each tract is duly recorded in every land transaction in the deed books or in probate records according to North Carolina law at the time. The land/home place most firmly associated with the family is deeded to John (d.1802/4) in 1767 from Bird Lanier. So honestly I don't know what to make of this discrepancy.

What does seem clear is that in 1749 the family in fact lived in the northeast portion of Duplin (then New Hanover) County and applied for a land grant that is recorded in John's sources on his profile. This land grant was never completed, however, and was in fact granted again, with the same land description, some 20 years later (perhaps to a son in law of old John?).

In about 1754 the Gavins who were in-laws to the Carrolls by 1756, bought land in the Six Runs area and moved there from the lands they previously bought near this Carroll 1749 grant (in New Hanover County). So there is evidence indicating close association with these in-laws moving between these areas. This corresponds to what can be found with both John and his children having associations with various families in these two locations. So, at best, I am comfortable placing the Carrolls at a precise location in the northeast of Duplin County (which was in fact then New Hanover County and near enough to the county border to be confused with Craven County as seemed to be the case). I'm also confident they were not in the area of Six Runs during 1749 or earlier.

But where were they before this? I've spent several months looking at several possibilities, and so far all I'm comfortable saying is that I don't know. I know several places they weren't. But it seems likely they were in North Carolina.

And for now, while I'm happy to go over the evidence with anyone interested, that's as far as I'm able to say.

- Greg Lamberson ( Lamberson-312 )

Comments

Greg: Your work is impressive. Anne

---

Thank you. That's very kind of you.

---

Hi Greg,

Checking in: did we get all of the connections (and SAR placement) corrected?

Let me know if I need to do anything!

Kind regards,

Porter

Answer 2

I meant to take a separate post to address the death of Jesse Carroll, but it ended up taking all day to get to. My apologies.

Regarding the death of Jesse, just as the land record sources attached can serve to positively identify him, so too can these same lands be used to verify his identity through the inheritance of his sons. But when exactly did they inherit?

In the recording of wills in Sampson County at this time, unfortunately, no recording date is given when the will was probated. Thus the only date associated with the will is that on which it was written: 10 March, 1802.

To find when Jesse had died and the will was entered into probate one must read the tedious minutes of the Sampson County Court. In doing so, one finds that Jesse Carroll, Senr., was in fact summoned to jury duty about the 16th of August, 1809. Thus his condition at that time wasn't known to be grave or they surely would have bypassed him. Rather than reporting for jury duty, however, we find instead his son John and subscribing witnesses David and Alexander Chesnutt have reported his death and sworn to the veracity of his will on 13 November, 1809. So Jesse almost surely died between these two dates.

I have no earthly idea where this specific 1801 date comes from. Perhaps it's another artifact from the conflation of these two very different Jesse Carrolls? No idea here. 1802 at least make sense since the will was written then.

These sources have also now been added to Jesse's profile. I'm sorry it took all day.

Comments

Thoroughly excellent!

---

Thank you, Cousin!

---

Funny thing is that the previously erroneous Jesse's data seems to have originated from a failed SAR/DAR application that is preserved by Ancestry, and mentioned on William Carroll's profile.