Which name field does religious title "Father" go in?

Question

Hello,

This profile has the DB Error 754: Wrong word in nicknames. He was a priest and the prefix "Father" was originally in the prefix field and I believe an error came up and it was moved to the nickname field. Now this error has come up. What is the appropriate field to put in religious titles such as Father and Sister (for nuns)?

Comments

Mark it as a false error.

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Should it be in the Prefix field?

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I usually use the preferred name field, but others use the nickname field.  Using the prefix field really depends on whether there was a religious name that differed from the birth given names.  An example

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ivers-51

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Oh thank you for the example! There's lots of nuns and priests in the family so that's very helpful.

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Thanks for linking that profile. I have a few priests and nuns as well. Also cool, she's 22 degrees from Georgia O'Keefe.

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"Father" belongs in the Prefix field.

It is not a "Preferred Name," as priests continue to have given names after they enter the priesthood.

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Not all priests continue to use their original baptismal names after ordination.  Some orders do change their names, retaining their baptismal names as their legal names, and their religious names to signify the change they have made in their lives.  This is usually not the case for "secular" (diocesan/parish) priests who retain their baptismal names and are then known as Father Lastname, Father Firstname, or Father Firstname Lastname.
Some orders may use a combination of baptismal name plus new religious name and thus become Father Harold Xavier Jones, or Father Ronald Ignatius Loyola Henderson.

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When a new priest changes his given name, say a change from John to Petrus, "Father" does not become part of his new given name; it's a prefix to the new given name of Petrus.

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Depending on the Order, it is his new preferred name - "title" and all.  Very few people call a priest by his given name/s.  He is almost always "Father Name".  It would be as wrong to show him as Father John "Peter Ignatius" Graham Browne (when he was never Father John Browne, but was/is Father Peter Ignatius (Browne)), as it is to show a nun as Sister Melissa "Mary Catherine" Audrey Smith, when she was never Sister Melissa anything.

Answer 1

Wouldn't it be better to use the occupation abbreviation of Reverend - Rev. - in the prefix field, so that it doesn't get confused with the father that is a relative.

Comments

Yes, I think so. I went back and looked at my source and it has him as Rev. so I ended up putting that in the prefix. I think the preferred name field would work for the nuns though because it seems they do go by their religious name once becoming a nun.

ETA: The source is a book about a town and its church and he is on multiple different pages. So I was looking at each one to see how he was referenced.

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This inspired another possible solution.  A priest’s official title is ‘Reverend Father’ and the official abbreviation is ‘Rev. Fr.’.

So, if we use the official abbreviation it won’t trigger a Suggestion.

Mea sorta culpa -  I’m the Data Doctor who’s been moving names and titles around and I’ve been meaning to ask this very question…

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Please consider using ‘Rev. Fr.’ per my idea below.

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I'm not sure that Protestant denominations use Father at all, I've certainly never seen it with Anglicans and Presbyterians.  They are just Rev (The Reverend John Smith), sometimes Very Rev or Most Rev if they are bishops.  I've been told the full stop should not be used.  I always put it in the prefix.

For Catholics, it makes sense, and if I stumble across any more Catholic priests I'll use Rev Fr

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Thank you Laura, I will change it to Rev. Fr. as the person I asked the question for is a Roman Catholic priest. I suppose each person will need individual consideration as to whether they continue to use their birth name or their religious name. I appreciate the help!

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I am aware of Father being  used by some Episcopal clergy.

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Me too.

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"Reverend Father" would be absolutely wrong!

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I disagree, Victoria. "Reverend" is, in essence, an adjective meaning "revered" or "worthy of reverence", so "Reverend Father" means "revered Father." It's true that Reverend is often used as if it's an occupational title, but strictly speaking, that's wrong. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Reverend

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Well, no, it's not incorrect as an occupational title. An ordained priest is a reverend. Wiki, with all due respect, is not an academic source; it's user generated. See at the note at the top of the page seeking reliable sources.

Your grammatical parsing of reverend has no more relevance that parsing the military rank of private. Reverend denotes the priestly position in the Catholic Church hierarcy.

Y'all do whatever you want to do. And "mea sorta culpa" is insulting. At this point, I'm out of this thread because it is rankling me.

Answer 2

I think a case can be made for using the religious name as a preferred name.

• For women religious (Catholic at least) I've seen them mostly enumerated on the census with their given names.
• However, what constitutes a document with an official name? I have death certificates for two nuns in the same family who died three years apart. One certificate has the religious name and another the given name. 
• Additionally, If a person migrates to the U.S. and adopts the English version of their name at birth, we put that as the preferred name.

Rev. or Rev. Fr. might work for men but it won't work for women. Also, it isn't super cut and dried with men either. It depends on their order, their level of education, and more. See this Wikipedia article for more info. 

Comments

You’re right, it doesn’t work for women religious.  In that case,  either the Preferred Name or Other Nickname would be “Sister Religious Names” with no prefix, and the birth names in their usual places.  This gives a name display that makes more sense than using the prefix field.

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The consecrated religious are trickier. The initials of the religious order would belong in the suffix.

Using Her Given Name and Family Name: Sister (Full Name), (initials of order)

Using a Chosen Religious Name: Sister (Full Name), (initials of order)

https://formsofaddress.info/foa_priest_catholic/

(sorry about the funky fonts)

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You are right about that Victoria.

Answer 3

The proper title for a Catholic parish priest is Reverend (Rev.)

As a Catholic who has written for diosesan publications, I've run up on the problem of properly addressing the religious in print. Let me suggest the following website: https://www.mycatholicsource.com/mcs/pc/vocations/addressing_correspondence_to_clergy.htm

Comments

Now I'm really confused about 'Reverend Father' because the source you provided says to use 'Reverend Father' in the salutation and conclusion of correspondence, and 'Reverend' on the envelope.

I see this title quite a bit on Australian profiles.