Canadian Records

Question

Hello,

I'm trying to pull more resources together form my 3rd great grandmother Theresa Pier.  She was born in France around 1810, and was married to German Joseph/Joannes Andres in 1858 in Waterloo, Ontario Canada.  All six of her children were born in Canada between 1835 and 1850.  Beginning in 1860 all the records are in America.  What I'm looking for is any of the following:

1. Immigration/passenger list showing her movement from France to Canada

2. Marriage to Joannes/Joseph Andres (not sure where the marriage occured)

3. Birth records for any/all of the children in Canada

4. Immigration/naturalization from Canada to the US which seems to have occured between 1850 and 1860. 

Greedy, I know.  I've been at it all day and I'm just not finding what I'm looking for.  Any help would be greatly appreciated, and possibly repaid in kind if I'm able to help you with a question you have.  I'm just not familiar with finding Canadian records I guess. 

Cheers,
~Kirby

Comments

About the husband: How sure are you the person from the baptism record is the same who emigrated? That place of birth never belonged to Baden.

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You are absolutely correct!  I can't believe I missed that.  I do see a correlating Geneanet that he is from Baden (Baden-Baden), Baden Wurttemberg (Baden-Württemberg), Allemagne (Germany). I will remove his parents and the associated baptism.  Thank you!

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Baden was a state of its own back then. Please create a profile for the baptism and connect it to the parents.

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All done, and parent bio's corrected to link to correct child.  Also fixed on FamilySearch.  Everything should be cleaned up now.

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But if he arrived in Canada in 1839 AND was naturalized then (?), how could he have married his wife in 1835 in Canada already?

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Can you please add a sharing link to that passenger list entry of him?

When he was from Baden, name might have been Andris:
https://nvk.genealogy.net/map/1890:Andris,1890:Andres

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It shows you have it for editing right now, so here's the link: https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/428189?mark=7b22746f6b656e223a224d66796141356d7a475244424a646a574858496d69466e3250734635355a364634387449563939416e684d3d222c22746f6b656e5f76657273696f6e223a225632227d

I suspect that they were married prior to coming over, but the 1860 census shows that all the children were born in Canada.  I would bet that the first few children were born prior to coming over, but when the census taker asked, they just said Canada since most of the children were born there.  Unless I can find some birth records to prove this suspicion, I can't argue with the records I have.

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Also: where does that middle name initial of Joseph come from?

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The death certificate for his son Anton is the only place I see it: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KF3W-TZN

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I've added some research notes.  I'm headed off to bed so it may be a while before I respond again.  I appreciate your help with this!

Answer 1

I found the Birth / Baptism Records of Theressa Pierre. You need to go to page 719. Unfortunately there is noch direct link for it. Hope that helps a bit too.

Comments

This is huge!  Wow!  I had to take a picture and use Google Translate, but I think you are correct.  On Ancestry I have a connected Geneanet that I wasn't putting much stock in because I couldn't access/find the records, but if this is the right person, then her parents match this Geneanet record: Thérèse Pierre : Family tree by Nancy HALIFAX (nhalifax) - Geneanet

This is the strongest evidence I have seen and think I'll be removing her from her current parents and using this record to associate the parents from this record.  Thank you so much!  This is amazing and so helpful!

Answer 2

Since one of the children seems to have been born in Québec, I checked those records.  I could not find her or any of the other children in Drouin/LaFrance in the 1830's through 1850.  No record for Therese Pier at all  in Québec.  Several Joseph Andre but none married to any Therese.  The one Theotiste mother I found in that time period was not born in France.  It would be unusual for children before and after her to be born in Waterloo and then her in Québec.  People didn't travel much in those days.

Followup using Theresa Pierre, only one mother of that name/time in Québec.  There were also St Pierre and LaPierre.  None of them with a husband names Andres or anything similar.

Answer 3

First off, you can forget about immigration papers / records from Canada to the US in this time period, they simply don't exist.  It was an open border in the full meaning of the word.  They only start keeping track of cross-border immigration in 1900s on the Canada side, not sure about the US side.  

As for finding immigration lists from Europe to Canada before 1865, not very likely to find anything (see link), but you can try.  

Comments

This is a great resource!  So far I haven't found anything, but thank you so much for sharing!

Answer 4

The only travel source I have found for early immigrants to Canada is the records of people who travelled from Québec City to Montréal on one of the ferries that made that trip.

The information on the records are for the cost of travelling, they usually include the name of the person paying for passage, the number of people travelling with that person and how much the cost was per person.

It does not usually include the names of the other people, only the name of the person who paid for the ticket/tickets.

The records often include the number of adults and children.

The records are not always for immigrants as people often made the trip for business and other reasons.

Try looking here:

https://www.theshipslist.com/ships/passengerlists/1819_36stlawrence.shtml

Comments

Wow M.!  Nice find!    Needle in a haystack unfortunately, considering the number of entries for a single ship over the years, and the frequent absence of given names.  I am not sure just how many of these are actually immigrants either.

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It is a bit of a needle in a haystack!

Though if you can be very patient and have time available it is possible to find family groups.

I usually have discounted single males who are frequent travelers as most of my searches have been for families.

What can be very interesting is comments that are written next to some names, and ticket costs , which are lower than the regular price.

Comments include 'all the money they had, husband died yesterday, 3 babies no charge'.

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This is really interesting!  I did find a "Mr. Andres" and a "M Andres", not enough detail to know if it was him, but interesting!  Thank you. :)

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Just curious what date was record for the trip for the Andres?

Many of my husband's ancestors arrived in the 1830s-1840s, and settled in the Renfrew, Ontario area, they all would have travelled from Québec to Montréal on one of the ferries, I have only found a record that I'm reasonably sure was for one of the families.

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Here are the potential records:

* Trip 1: Mr. Andres / Chambly - 14th trip up, Quebec to Montreal, July 6th 1827 / Passengers to USA & Canada from Quebec to Montreal 1827 July 06 (theshipslist.com)

* Trip 2: Mr. Andres / Chambly - 17th trip up, Quebec to Montreal, July 15th 1830 / Passengers to USA & Canada from Quebec to Montreal 1830 July 15 (theshipslist.com)

* Trip 3: Mrs. Andres / Chambly - 26th trip up, Quebec to Montreal, September 14th 1830 / Passengers to USA & Canada from Quebec to Montreal 1830 September 14 (theshipslist.com)

* Trip 4: M Andres / Lady Sherbrooke -15th trip up, Quebec to Montreal, September 1st 1824 / Passengers to USA & Canada from Quebec to Montreal 1824 September 01 (theshipslist.com)

I have two possible naturalization records:

* The first is just an index in 1839 AND the name is spelled wrong.  I found the book it came from so I'm going to order it and see what I can find in there.   

* The second I was able to find an image on Canadian immigration and added it to the profile, showing an application for naturalization with a seven-year residence ending in 1843, so he would have been living there since about Oct 1836. 

* They were in the US by 1860.

So the dates would likely be between 1836- 1860 in the area, thus I think we can throw out Trip 1 and Trip 4 as out of date ranges.   Trip 2 and 3 both occurred in 1830 and were of a Mr. Andres and a Mrs. Andres on different ships - these are interesting.  

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If they arrived in 1830, they escaped the cholera epidemic that began in 1832.

https://opentextbc.ca/preconfederation/chapter/10-3-immigration/

Is there any evidence of older children?

By 1832 it had spread to Upper Canada, my husband's 2 x GGA died in of cholera in Toronto/York in 1832.

If they were in the current day Kitchener area, they should have been safer as they were away from the shore of Lake Ontario where ships from Montreal arrived, mostly at Kingston and Toronto.

In 1832 and after, the ship they traveled on would have been required to stop at Grosse Île, near Québec, it was a quarantine station and all ships stopped there for inspection.

There were other epidemics in 1834, 1849, 1851, 1852 and 1854.

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The 1860 Census is the most comprehensive list of children, but with the oldest here being 21 there could have been older children I can't find as I don't have a marriage record/location/date, or any birth certificates/baptisms for any of the children.

The second option for Canadian Naturalization does show him living Wellesley outside of Kitchener in 1841.

Name	Sex	Age	Occupation	Birth Place	Birth Year Est. by age/Census year
Joseph Andrus	M	56		Baden	1804
Teresa Andrus	F	54		France	1806
Caroline Andrus	F	21		Canada	1839
Joseph Andrus	M	18		Canada	1842
John Andrus	M	15		Canada	1845
Mary Andrus	F	13		Canada	1847
Antoine Andrus	M	10		Canada	1850

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You might add the tag for Grosse_Ile, which will draw attention from folks working on that specific project.

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Thank you, Danielle!  I messaged the Project Leader with a link to this G2G to see if it is appropriate to add them to that project.  I truly appreciate your insights and assistance!