Could we please have a Categorization G2G Category?

Question

G2G questions about categories are showing up all over the place-- Policy & Style, Wikitree Help, Wikitree Tech and probably more.

If we had a g2g category for Categorization, maybe it would encourage people to post all category-related questions there (and g2g moderators could move strays there).

Pretty please?

Comments

I totally agree, Jillaine.

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Some history is here. The strong continuing demand for the successful collaborative category creation approach gives weight to the suggestion for improvement Jillaine is making.

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Thanks for finding that thread, Jim. I tried unsuccessfully to find it.

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AND I would just add that since then, categorization topics aren't just in Policy & Style, they're scattered all over the place.

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Thank you Jillaine for revisiting this need.  I think Appreciation and Photos are the only selections that Category help posts aren't listed under.  Some of those requests slide off the current business screen and can be difficult to locate, the next day or even hours after it was posted, if the feed is filling with many new posts each hour.. Yesterday I found a simple request from 2 months ago that slipped by us all.  Using that G2G search box isn't helpful as it seems to favor very old posts with lots of activity, while ignoring the newer posts,

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It would make finding or noticing category requests much simpler.

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Jillaine, adding the  improvements  tag may help to get attention for this.

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Thanks, Jim; done.

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Flagging this again. There is a lot of support for this request.

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I concur, this really needs to happen so one can find things in our G2G feed better.

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Chris Whitten wrote on 11 March 2022 "That's a possibility but let's give it some more time." Time has passed, and both the volume of requests and the arguments for change remain strong. If there is a problem with implementing what Jillaine suggests, it would be good if we could please hear from the Team what it is.

Answer 1

Great idea! I always have category questions, lol!

Answer 2

I routinely look at 'All Questions', so posts in a Categorization Category would still appear.  Is there a way to exclude a category?

Comments

If you have the WikiTree Browser Extension installed then that gives the option to hide all questions that are in specific categories (see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:WikiTree_Browser_Extension#G2G_Options).

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Could WBE be enhanced with the ability to hide questions not only in particular (G2G) categories but also with particular tags? Then people who want to could hide the tag "categorization". That wouldn't cover all requests for new categories, but at least it would dispose of the semi-automated category advice requests generated from the "How to add Categories" section in the right margin of profile edit tabs.

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The volume of activity in WikiTree is now high enough that a person would have to look at the main G2G page at least a couple of times every day (more on some days) to see all of the threads with recent activity. The "All Questions" page gives more thorough coverage of the most recent questions, but I don't think it shows recent activity beyond the asking of questions (threads with lots of activity don't get bumped up).

One concern I have is that G2G is becoming less and less useful for meaningful discussions of genealogy and WikiTree policy and style. On the G2G main page and also in the G2G Categories for Genealogy Help and Policy and Style, thoughtful/complex discussions scroll off the screen pretty quickly due to the more numerous posts for purposes like Wonderful WikiTreers (which affect the main page, but not the focused G2G categories) or asking for a category to be created.  Putting Categorization in its own G2G category would allow more effective use of G2G for discussion of important topics that require community discussion (versus one-time posts that merely require a noticeboard).

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Jm, that is useless forthose who do not use BEE, like myself.  Dislike the very concept of BEE, truth be told.

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I agree with Ellen that the Recent Activity page is useful but can get swamped. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any way in the Question2Answer software which runs G2G to increase the number of items on that page.

The future of enhancements to the interface lies in WBE (the WikiTree Browser Extension, not so much WikiTree BEE). WBE has great power and flexibility to change the way things are displayed. It's your choice, Danielle, but you'll miss out on a lot without it.

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Jim, I have the WBE, most recent additions I have turned off as there are only a couple of functions in there that I find useful, that being mostly corrections from old URLs to templates with new URL.  Some of the recent additions I have yet to figure out how to turn off, like the one that offers to make a table, which pops up in my screen at odd moments.  Really annoying when I'm in the middle of things.

Answer 3

"Policy and Style" is the correct place for categorization questions, as explained on https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/about .

The "categorization" tag should also be used for category questions: the tag system obviates the need to have many different sub-areas in G2G.

Comments

Rather confusingly, the description that somebody asking a question is given of "Policy and Style" is slightly different to the description on the help page.

From the help page: "This category is for questions about the finer points of WikiTreeing. Ask for help on the hard decisions or discuss WikiTree's policies, procedures, standards, categorization, collaboration methods, etc.". That implies to me that one of its uses is for discussing categorization, so as you say it is a reasonable place to request a new category.

From the page you get when you ask a question: "The Policy and Style category is for the finer points of WikiTreeing. Ask for help on the hard decisions about implementing WikiTree's policies, procedures, standards, categorization, collaboration methods, etc." That implies to me that it is only for hard decisions, about categorization or other topics, so is not the place for routine requests for new categories.

Given the conflicting descriptions, it isn't particularly surprising that at the moment category requests end up in various different places.

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And not everyone uses tags for following g2g. For myself, I go through each of the categories I'm most interested in and find myself inundated in all of them with categorization requests.

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Most (but not all) of the "categorization" questions are straightforward requests for somebody to create a category for one specific profile. Sometimes the same member posts two or questions of this type in rapid succession. (I see this because I look at many of these questions in order to add subject-matter tags like military_and_war or england.) Ideally those straightforward requests could be posted on a noticeboard so they would not distract from meatier discussions, but putting the topic of Categorization in its own G2G category would help.

Answer 4

I totally agree!  The volume of categorization help requests has not abated since the inception of this system in 2022, and finding things in other Policy and style questions is truly arduous.

Comments

I just skimmed through the recent activity feed for the G2G Policy and Style category, and counted just 15 items (out of 50) that were NOT about categorization. In other words, 70% of the Policy and Style category is now about Categorization!

This is just a one-time snapshot, and I may have misclassified a few items, but it illustrates the need for a G2G Categorization category so we can have a place for Policy and Style discussions again. (And note that I haven't yet counted the items in Wikitree Help and Genealogy Help, which also get Categorization questions. People who follow category questions would benefit from a focused category for these questions.)

ADDED: I found 4 Categorization questions in the top 50 in Genealogy Help (2%).

And 7 Categorization questions in WikiTree Help (3.5%). I tried to exclude questions that mentioned categories but were more about "how to WikiTree."

I counted 3 Categorization questions in The Tree House top 50. There were a few others that were tagged "categorization" or mentioned categories, but had broader topics.

Just 2 Categorization questions in WikiTree Tech.

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Ellen, thank you for taking the time to count the assorted placement of the new category requests. I think over time, I've noticed them in all of the sections, except Photos and Appreciation.  

I see on the current feed, an old post that got bumped, which is asking to discuss the merits of a category. Policy and Style is a good place for that type of discussion so wonder if a new G2G category for categories, could specify that it is for  requesting new categories for cemeteries and towns, that there are so many of and are clutter to folks that aren't interested in that, yet are challenging to find, for those of us that wish to fill those requests.  Some days, the posts are few and are all on the main screen all day,  while other days they wiz by in just a couple hours and if we only pop in once or twice a day, we miss those requests that were pushed off the page.  I know we can open more pages, but I rarely remember to do that. 

Answer 5

That is a wonderful idea - I greatly appreciate it!

Answer 6

Does adding a Category to G2G require a formal proposal? If so, I think making that proposal should be done.

It would be much simpler for our marvellous members who create categories for those of us who can't.

It would free up the Policy and Style category for more serious conversations.

As Jillaine said:

"If we had a g2g category for Categorization, maybe it would encourage people to post all category-related questions there (and g2g moderators could move strays there)."

As Jim said:

" The strong continuing demand for the successful collaborative category creation approach gives weight to the suggestion for improvement Jillaine is making."

As Ellen said:

"Putting Categorization in its own G2G category would allow more effective use of G2G for discussion of important topics that require community discussion (versus one-time posts that merely require a noticeboard)."

As Patricia said:

Some of those requests slide off the current business screen and can be difficult to locate, the next day or even hours after it was posted, if the feed is filling with many new posts each hour.. Yesterday I found a simple request from 2 months ago that slipped by us all.  Using that G2G search box isn't helpful as it seems to favor very old posts with lots of activity, while ignoring the newer posts,

And speaking for myself and not complaining, I am one of the people whose recent category request slipped off the front page.

Comments

Thank you for the cogent summary, M.

In my opinion it would be a technical improvement, not a policy change. If I'm right then Jillaine's post, now with the "improvements" tag, is sufficient to make the request. A policy proposal is not required.

Chris said of a separate G2G category on 11 March 2022:

That's a possibility but let's give it some more time.

Many people clearly feel that the time has arrived.

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Looking back at the conversation of March 2022, Chris thought that the demand for new categories could diminish over time, and it obviously hasn't.

The my connections within a category was really a game changer.

Speaking personally it made my Cemetery project possible. I had been trying to find a way of showing my DH how he is connected to all the people,(about 1470 of them) buried in the cemetery in the village where his 3rd and 4th GGF settled in 1830-1840. I'm up to 592 profiles in the cemetery category.

The need for new categories is a sign of the success of the my connections innovation.

And I have used the my connections feature as a way to attract new members. WikiTree is the only place where this type of project can be done.

We should be celebrating this success and adding a new G2G category would be a major improvement.

How do we move/bump this conversation and technical improvement idea to a more prominent position in G2G ?

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Let's be patient. The "improvements" tag usually attracts Jamie's attention, but she is very busy!