I have created two pre-1700 profiles and would be obliged for advice on my sources reliability. [closed]

+7 votes
360 views
Profiles for Wraith-107 and Wraith-108
WikiTree profile: Augustine Wraith
closed with the note: I've received the answer I was seeking thanks.
in Genealogy Help by Doug Oliver G2G1 (1.2k points)
closed by Doug Oliver
I cannot comment on the reliability of the sources but there is a formatting issue on Augustine's profile--ref tags showing up below the sources heading.
You should identify what each link represents: a specific document, a profile, a search page, etc.
Lindy

Many thanks for your helpful reply and advice.

Most appreciated

Doug Oliver
Nelda

Many thanks for your reply and comments. The formatting issue which you pointed out has been corrected by another extremely helpful WikiTreer - I had misunderstood the Guidelines regarding Sources but am now up to speed.

Most obliged

Doug Oliver

5 Answers

+12 votes
 
Best answer

I think your sources 1,3 and 4 for Augustine look fine, but their citation could be improved. You will have better citations if you use the Sourcer extension to generate them, but if you prefer not to use that then the citation needs to describe the source. An unadorned Ancestry link tells me nothing about the reliability of the source. It needs a description. So where you have:

<ref>https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/26393868:9852?</ref>

for the second marriage, Sourcer would give :

<ref>
"England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973"<br/>
Original data: England, Marriages, 1538-1973. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013; FHL Film Number: 1836029<br/>
{{Ancestry Record|9852|5294743|uk}} (accessed 19 October 2023)<br/>
Augustine Wraith marriage to Dorothy Silke on 22 Jan 1699 in Fordwich, Kent, England.
</ref>

This tells me that this information is from an Ancestry copy of a FamilySearch database which is index only with no images, and I can evaluate the reliability without needing an Ancestry subscription.

Your inline <ref>...</ref> citations should be with the statements they support. This is a relatively simple profile, but as you add more sources and statements it will become unclear which citation belongs to which statement. For example, for the second marriage you should add the reference above in the text:

he married Dorothy Silke, on 22 January 1699, at Fordwich, Kent. <ref>
"England, Select Marriages, 1538-1973"<br/>
Original data: England, Marriages, 1538-1973. Salt Lake City, Utah: FamilySearch, 2013; FHL Film Number: 1836029<br/>
{{Ancestry Record|9852|5294743|uk}} (accessed 19 October 2023)<br/>
Augustine Wraith marriage to Dorothy Silke on 22 Jan 1699 in Fordwich, Kent, England.
</ref>

so that it appears as:

he married Dorothy Silke, on 22 January 1699, at Fordwich, Kent.[4]

Then it is clear that citation 4 is the one supporting this statement. You could go one step further and find the record on FamilySearch and cite that. It is usually better to follow a chain of citations back as far as possible rather than using a derivative source.

The fifth citation is to a FamilySearch copy of the FindAGrave database. It would be better to cite FindAGrave directly, and link to the page there. FindAGrave is only a reliable source if there is an image of the memorial that you can read and cite. The text on the page is not regarded as a reliable pre-1700 source. In this case it shows a snippet of the burial register, not a gravestone, which is intermediate, but it also tells you to look on FindMyPast and FamilySearch. So again this is derivative of something else, and if you can access those sources you should do so.

[Edited to add:] Your second source has the wrong URL. You describe it as a parish record, but the link is to a private Ancestry tree. Without a fuller description I cannot tell what you are intending to cite here.

[Edited again to correct example citaton.]

by Andrew Millard G2G6 Pilot (124k points)
selected by Heike Blumreiter
Andrew

Many thanks for your very helpful and comprehensive reply. Some excellent tips and advice. A couple of other replies mentioned the Sourcer which I was unaware of previously and I am about to take a look at that.

Most obliged

Doug Oliver
+5 votes
Sorry Doug. Some of us have no free access to Ancestry dot com.
by Gregory Morris G2G6 Mach 2 (29.6k points)
Gregory

Many thanks for your reply. Point taken. I shall try to avoid using Ancestry as a source in future and seek to use the free sites such as FamilySearch. The profile for Augustine Wraith has been improved considerably thanks to another WikiTreer.

Most obliged

DougOliver
It's still a good idea to use Ancestry sources where applicable - some will have an image of the actual register or other record which can have important details on it that may be missing from the familysearch record. There's no harm in using a source from both (and sometimes familysearch will have an image where Ancestry doesn't).

If you use the Sourcer it will create a sharing link so those without a subscription can see it - and you could also transcribe the details.
Gill

Many thanks for your comments. I have been looking at the Sourcer and the helpful video for the first time today. I shall see if I can generate the sharing links you mention for free access  to Ancestry sources. That would be a fantastic benefit.

Most obliged

Doug Oliver
+4 votes
First, the Ancestry link is not accessible to anyone since it is part of your private tree on Ancestry.ca.

Second, there should not be anything at all between the == Sources == heading and the <reference /> tag.

I created a == Inline Biography == below your work to show you how I would do it with inline citations that are more fully written out and placed to indicate which facts they support. These are going to be citations 1 through 5. I also used the Sourcer app to format the citations with a single click. You do not have to use inline citations, but if you can they are recommended.

The quality of your sources are fine. I recommend that instead of using the FamilySearch (or Ancestry) source for Find A Grave, that you go directly to Find A Grave and use that instead. It is still very easy. You can use Sourcer to create the citation or Find A Grave provides one also.
by Lucy Selvaggio-Diaz G2G6 Pilot (842k points)
Lucy

Many thanks for your excellent comments and tips. The Inline Biography which you have added to the profile is greatly appreciated and I shall follow that procedure henceforth. I wasn't aware of the Sourcer previously and I shall certainly be looking at that soon.

Most obliged

Doug Oliver
+5 votes
You have received some excellent advice.

This help page https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Sources#Examples mentions that you want the 4 W (who, what, when, where) and this page discusses reliable sources https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Reliable_Sources

The FindAGrave site provides a citation, and this help page https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Find_A_Grave#Links_in_source_citations describes how to wrap that. Although the Sourcer will create a great citation.
by Kay Knight G2G6 Pilot (607k points)
Kay Knight

Many thanks for your helpful comments and tips. I shall certainly investigate the Sourcer app to format citations - I wasn't aware of this previously.

Most obliged

Doug Oliver
+1 vote

I try to cite the record I was actually looking at and if there is another version cite that under a "See Also:" list at the end of the sources.

For example, Andrew has provided a citation to a transcript of the marriage record for Augustine and Mary at FamilySearch (source #2). But you seem to have a copy of the original record. An original record is far more reliable as a source than an index and, since you have it, I'm guessing that's the version you relied on. (Though I'm not sure, because the dates are different and the WikiTree profile is using the date from the index at FS.)

I would write a source citation to that original document, including what the record is, the date, the book name, page, number, who holds the original, etc. as well as information about and maybe a link to the repository where you viewed the record (looks like that might be FindMyPast). Then move the citation to the transcription at FamilySearch to "See Also." But if you relied on the index and just grabbed a copy of the record page, then the main citation is to the index and the original record would go under the "See Also."

To help other people evaluate the reliability or compare it to something they may have, Elizabeth Shown Mills advises noting the type of source in the citation, especially if it's something like an index or transcription. I just add the word "transcription" or "index" or sometimes note if there are readability problems.

As far as writing source citations, the broader genealogical community relies on Elizabeth Shown Mills Evidence Explained as a standard; that work is based on the Chicago Manual of Style, which is the standard for social sciences. The WikiTree Sourcer extension uses a different style that relies on blind (shortened) links and skips a lot of information that EE citations would include (or more accurately, the places that the extension gets the info from skip a lot of that info). I think the goals of the two styles are probably different. 

If your goal is to establish reliability the EE style will do that better, but you will need to write your own citations. If your goal is to make it easy for someone to see something on another website with just a click, then the WikiTree style is easier to grab.

Here are a couple of examples for the marriage records.

WikiTree style citation to the FS page:

Marriage: "England Marriages, 1538–1973", database, (FamilySearch Record: NNWF-ZHH : accessed 19 October 2023), Augustine Wraith marriage to Mary Dilnot on 16 Oct 1688 in Bekesbourne, Kent, England, United Kingdom; citing Digital film/folder number: 004021500; FHL microfilm: 1736524; Record number: 79; Packet letter: A.

EE- or CMOS-style citation to the FS page:

Marriage of Augustine Wraith to Mary Dilnot, 16 Oct 1688, Bekesbourne, Kent, England, UK, index, "England Marriages, 1538–1973", FamilySearch DGS 004021500, microfilm 1736524, record 79, packet A, https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNWF-ZHH , accessed 20 Oct 2023.

EE- or CMOS-style citation to the original record (I'm making up some info, because it's not available to me):

Marriage of Augustine Wraith to Mary Dilnot, 26 Oct 1688, Bekesbourne, Kent, England, UK, Book name [e.g., Bekesbourne Parish Marriage Register], volume # or name [e.g., 1673–1704 or volume A, etc.], page#, FindMyPast DGS ######, image ## of ####, https://findmypastblahblahExactLink , accessed 20 Oct 2023, citing Canterbury Cathedral Archives, Canterbury, England, UK.

"Citing" essentially means "I saw it at one place and that place said they got it from (or that place is citing) this other place." Usually, the other place holds the original records, but not always.

by Regan Conley G2G6 Mach 4 (49.6k points)
Regan

Thank you for your extremely comprehensive and helpful response to my question. I shall endeavour to bear this in mind and seek to identify the original source of where I found the image.In the meantime I have uploaded the image (and another) and placed them at the side of the profile so that at least anyone can see them.

Most obliged

Doug Oliver

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