What is the longest DNA confirmed patrilineal relationship IN WIKITREE?

+18 votes
608 views

Is this (currently) the longest patrilineal line in WikiTree which can be confirmed with sufficiently matching Y-DNA? https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1Name=Monroe-4763&person2Name=Munro-3179&relationshipLimit=paternal

They are 12th cousins twice removed and match on 34 out of 37 markers.  If you are logged into mitoYDNA.org then you can compare their Y-DNA via WikiTree: https://www.mitoydna.org/public/YCompare?MtyID=T11385%2CT17628

in The Tree House by Peter Roberts G2G6 Pilot (711k points)
edited by Peter Roberts
Would this change the confidence shown in the Relationship Finder statements?

In the Relationship Finder, each individual in the inheritance chain whose profile has been set with the "Confirmed with DNA" status will display the small icon next to their entry in place of the usual text (e.g., "confident," "unknown confidence"). 

But unless the profile has that status set, whatever parental status is shown on the profile will also show on the Relationship Finder. So it's on a profile-by-profile basis, and simply having a possible DNA connection doesn't automatically change the status settings.

For example, in the Relationship Finder comparison that Peter linked to, 18 of the 28 profiles involved have an "unknown confidence" status, and one is "uncertain." None have been set to "Confirmed with DNA."

More work needs to be done before the relationship could legitimately be confirmed.  

  • 37 STR markers is insufficient to date the age of the relationship
  • Men from both haplogroups R and I claim to be descended from the same common ancestor.  Obviously, there is a mistake within the claimed relationships.
  • Many of the profiles have uncertain confidence and are lacking supporting sources.
  • The group of related men with SNP R-Y136977 and 111 STR markers measured appear to have a common ancestor who lived circa 1650.  This matches John Munro, a Scottish POW that was transported to New England and passed away in 1691.  "John" is a common name and connecting him to his father in Scotland is problematic.  There was probably several "John Munro" born every month in Scotland.
  • Similar problems with the other line descended from another "John" Munro, Sea Captain born in Scotland.
  • The Munro YDNA project at FTDNA is pointing to the I-Y12073 group being of Foulis.  This group appears to be older.
Hello Andrew, Any chance of getting any of those I-Y12073 Munroes and their sourced genealogical relationships in WikiTree?

Thanks and sincerely,
Maybe Peter....

While the Baronetcy is currently dormant,  Ian Kenneth Munro (born 1940) is currently living and in line.  From what I can tell, he is considered legitimate by the Court of Lyons.

While the identify of the participants in the project are kept private, the Administrators have public email address and may be able to facilitate contact with some members.

I noticed that one of the members within the Foulis Munro group identified his last name as "Munro B.t."  He claims only to be descended from the Munro of Foulis-Obsdale.  This seems suspiciously like a relative of the legitimate Baronet line.

I have now completed a SAPP analysis of the Munro Foulis group YDNA 111 STR data and their common ancestor is dated to circa 1350.  That is 300 years older than the R-Y136977 group.

4 Answers

+12 votes
 
Best answer
I have a Y DNA match with a 6th cousin once removed on my paternal line  going back our ancestor born 1664 in Northern Sweden.

WikiTree contributors, "Lars Nilsson (1664-1724)," WikiTree: The Free Family Tree, (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Nilsson-4502 : accessed 08 October 2023).
by Erik Granstrom G2G6 Mach 4 (48.8k points)
selected by Andreas West
Thank you.  Is your 6th cousin willing to join WikiTree?

Great discovery, Erik!

PS: I hope you will extend this path to your family tree in our app, right now it ends with Jonas Gustaf Berglund (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Berglund-230), which BTW is a wonderful example of adding sources to a WikiTree profile.

Hello,

I had exchanged a few emails with a dna match of mine in Sweden and her brother is the one who did the y-dna test.  I think we have a few different common ancestors so the auDNA matches may be on another branch of our family tree.

I had entered her into WikiTree and sent an invite years ago.  I have another cousin on my paternal line I had contacted on Family Search before as well.  Though I don't think he has done any dna testing.

I have one other close y dna match going back to Northern Sweden, but I am not sure how we connect, I think it is back to pre 1600s where most of the records start.  

Yes the sources added to my great great grandfathers profile were from a helpful Swede who had helped me find some sources for him in the Swedish records.  For the most part they have pretty good record keeping it seems.  Especially in the late 1800s.  

I definitely enjoy using the YourDNA.Family program and will keep adding my family tree to the program.  After that last reset I am going to just add in ancestors to connect to each dna cousin I find as I research each Triangulation Group.

Though this is my busy season at work, so much of that will have to wait until next year.

As I like to say, "more research needed!"
+5 votes
The Petty Surname Y-DNA Project at FTDNA has identified, through meticulous conventional genealogy, the immigrant ancestor of one of its lines as Hubert Petty, d. 1687 in Lancaster Co., colonial Virginia (Petty-7).  The professional genealogist who made this discovery, determining him to be his 7th great grandfather, was the late James Winter Petty (Petty-3070, d. 2020), who took the Big Y test in 2015 and was given the haplogroup I-BY34474.  Since that time, over two dozen direct descendants of Hubert Petty have taken the Big Y test and joined the Petty Project, resulting in the discovery of three levels of subclades below BY34474, and 11 unique terminal SNPs.  I-BY34474 is now considered the Hubert Petty Clan haplogroup.  James Winter Petty's terminal SNP is now I-Z39481, which sits at the second level below BY34474, and has no equivalent SNPs or private variants.  The haplogroup series from Hubert Petty to James Winter Petty is I-BY34474 --> FT404340 --> Z38481.  Though not a long haplogroup series, it does span a period of over two centuries (based on the estimated year of the haplogroups' formation).  Also, the confidence level for the relationships in this series is extremely high as the connections are Y-SNP confirmed.  Another descendant of Hubert Petty in the Petty Project has him as his 9th great grandfather.  His haplotree follows the series I-BY34474 --> BY120617 --> FT122807 --> FT348032; he has one equivalent haplogroup and one private variant.
by Robert Petty G2G4 (4.4k points)
edited by Robert Petty
+5 votes

3 7th great-grandsons from different patrilinear lines from Colonel Johan Henrik Selmer 1678 - 1721 tested BigY. They form haplogroup I-Y51237 together with 4 other SNPs. The number of private variants is 4, 4, and 0 (me). The relationship for two of the 8th cousins is here The 3rd 8th cousin is not on WikiTree yet.

I have made my own confirmation citation using SNPs. Comments welcome.

by Ole Selmer G2G6 Mach 4 (42.3k points)
edited by Ole Selmer

Hello Ole, Any chance of getting any of those other I-Y51237 Selmers and their sourced genealogical relationships in WikiTree?

Thanks and sincerely, Peter

+2 votes

My line is 11 generations. If you started from my grandson it would be 13 generations. 

1. Glenn is the son of John Leland Earls (1923-1991) DNA confirmed
2. John is the son of Gordon Leland Earls (1893-1994) DNA confirmed
3. Gordon is the son of James Henry Earls (1874-1960) DNA confirmed
4. James is the son of Elijah Earls Jr (1848-1925) DNA confirmed
5. Elijah is the son of Elijah Earls Sr (1822-1906) DNA confirmed
6. Elijah is the son of John Nicholas Earls (1798-1845) DNA confirmed
7. John is the son of John Earls (abt.1759-1847) DNA confirmed
8. John is the son of John Joseph Earle (abt.1730-aft.1790) DNA confirmed
9. John is the son of Enoch Earle (1693-bef.1774) DNA confirmed
10. Enoch is the son of Edward Earle Jr. (abt.1668-abt.1713) DNA confirmed
11. Edward is the son of Edward Earle Sr. (abt.1628-1711) DNA confirmed

by Glenn Earls G2G6 (8.1k points)
Thank you for posting Glenn.  Edward Earle Sr. would need to have another son in WikiTree and that son would need to have a patrilineal line of descendants in WikiTree with one of the recent ones who is a Y-DNA “match” with you.

I have added this documentation to my line's "sources" area as verification of the "Confirmed with DNA" following the instructions on this help page:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Y-Chromosome_DNA_Confirmation

* Paternal relationship is confirmed through Y-chromosome DNA testing at {{Family Tree DNA}}. [[Earls-502|Glenn Earls]], FTDNA kit #885704, and his 7th Cousin Twice Removed, [[Hudson-13364|Roy Hudson]], FTDNA kit #AM13992, match at a Genetic Distance of 4 on 111 markers thereby confirming their direct paternal lines back to their MRCA [[Earle-21|Edward Earle Jr. (abt.1668-abt.1713)]]. Based on a Genetic Distance of 4 at the Y-111 test level, Glenn Earls and Roy Hudson are estimated to share a common paternal line ancestor who was, with a 95% probability, born between 1500 and 1850 CE. The most likely year is rounded to 1700 CE. This date is an estimate based on genetic information only.

Please let me know if I have done this correctly. 

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