PGM: Proposal to sever Isabella Harcourt, wife of Thomas Wickes, immigrant to Wethersfield, Stamford & Long Island, NY

Question

I'm proposing that we remove Isabel Harcourt as the wife and mother of the children of Thomas Willkes, and replace with a placeholder profile (Unknown Unknown).  Below is a summary the reasoning from comments on the related profiles:

"Supposed wife Isabel Harcourt remains strongly disputed by present-day genealogists (as of 2022). Mother: Her mother remains UNKNOWN based on the most recent genealogy research from the Connecticut Ancestry Society, wherein, regarding the wife of Rebecca's father, genealogist Frederick Hart Jr. states: The name of his wife has not been determined, although Seversmith felt it was possible that she was related to Jonas Wood 'Oram.' Thomas [so-called] 'Wicks' and Jonas Wood 'Oram' were certainly closely associated in Huntington records and shared many boundaries with each other.[1] According to "The American Genealogist" (TAG 9:79 (1932)), Rebecca's supposed mother, Isabella Harcourt, daughter of Richard and Elizabeth (Potter) married Thomas Weekes of Oyster Bay, son of Francis, NOT Thomas Wilkes/"so-called" Wickes of Huntington. Additionally, it is noted Wilkes may have been the son of Edward Wilks and Katheren Rogers of Shottery, Stratford-upon-Avon. Furthermore, Thomas wrote his own surname as Wilkes/Wilks, the surname also noted by Huntington Town recorders in town records as Wilkes, Wilks, Wicks, and Wickes. [2] There are NO sources of quality or circumstantial support for Isabella Harcourt's marriage to Thomas Wilkes of Huntington, Long Island. "

Comments

They are my 8th great-grandparents. Do I just erase her from my own tree?

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Hi Susan,

I'm not sure I understand your question...but I'll take a guess.

The PGM Project manages the profiles, so there isn't any action that you need to take.  But this does mean that Isabel Harcourt would not appear in your tree as your 8th great-grandmother.

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Thank you. I was thinking of my Ancestry tree.

It’s hard to remove a “grandma” lol.

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Indeed it is.  When I face these moments in my own tree, I try to imagine if my ancestors were to come back and see some stranger in their place in the family history, there as the mother of their children...saying, who the heck is Isabel?

But, as they say as one door opens another closes.  I think there are some possible clues to his actual wife in the TAG article, and I'll include that in the new profile for the wife.

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I hear you! ;)

Answer 1

You present a valid observation that naming Isabel Harcourt as wife to Thomas Wicks is a bit speculative. I would have no objection to your suggestion of substituting a "placeholder" profile, as was done by Familysearch.

Answer 2

Sadly, I agree with removing Isabel Harcourt as wife of this particular Thomas Wickes (Weeks).

Answer 3

I have no objection to removing/separating Isabel Harcourt as wife to Thomas Wicks. As anyone who has tackled the Wicks lineage knows all too well, there are numerous members of this family line living in close proximity with the same name and similar residence locales. Although Isabel is already noted  "uncertain" as Thomas's spouse, it might be better for the sake of accuracy to simply put a placeholder there, with an explanation and a link to the detached profile page.

Comments

I have gone ahead and initiated the "trial separation" of Thomas Wicks and Isabel Harcourt.

Thomas's children must also be disconnected from Isabel but rather than doing this with a broad brush I think this a good opportunity to research each child's relationship and proceed with each one individually.

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Thanks, Norm...and thank you for adding the Research Notes.  I added a little more detail, and also added something on Isabel's profile.

Are you volunteering to do the research on the children? 

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I can put that on my "to-do" list but as you can probably see, I am already monitoring about 6500 profiles so it may be a while before I can dig into it! Most of my profiles are unlocked, so I welcome input from anyone. Thanks!

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Yes, I understand, we're up to 7,500+ in PGM Project (plus my own).  I'm going to go ahead and move the children so we can PPP the profile. The profiles can always be improved later.

Answer 4

These are my 9th great-grandparents.  I think my source of information on Isabella Harcutt was from Torrey's New England Marriages before 1700, and also from two further genealogies about the Wickes (var spellings) family.  I  appreciate and respect the knowledge of current-day genealogists, however there are several older sources that all seem to agree she is the correct wife.  I would prefer that Isabella remained linked with a disclaimer containing conflicting data (there is none really just conjecture) until some proof that she is NOT correct appears.  Thanks.

Comments

Hi Janice, thank you for commenting.  I think the real issue here is less about who Thomas Wickes married, but that at various times he was conflated with Thomas Weekes of Oyster Bay.  Both were on Long Island and 17th-century spelling being what it was, such confusion is understandable.

I went back to Torrey, and these are the entries I found:

• WICKES, Thomas (-1671) & ____ ____; Wethersfield, CT/Hadley/ Huntington, LI/Stamford, CT {NYGBR 12:132, 66:217; Shaffer-Hunt 75; Wickham-Billard 107 [{{FamilySearch Book|604319|108}}; Davis (1927) 45}
• WEEKS, Thomas (bpt 1652, 1651?-) & 1/wf ____ ____; ca 1675?; Oyster Bay, LI {Cocks (ed. 2) 386; Weekes (1885) 236-7}
• WEEKS, Thomas (1651-1716+) & 2/wf Isabella [HARCUTT?]/ HARCOURT (1662-); 1679, by 1701?; Oyster Bay, LI {NYGBR 66:91; TAG 9:79; Cocks (ed. 2) 295, 386; Wickham-Billard 108}

I'm happy to add this (or any other sources) to the discussion on the profile so we're showing all available sources but it looks like Torrey supports an unknown wife for Thomas Wickes/Wilkes. 

Unless there's some evidence supporting that she married the Thomas Wickes of Huntington (deeds, probate, vital records, associations with Thomas Wickes and the Harcourt family of Oyster Bay), it seems more appropriate as a research note than an actual connection to the profile.

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Thank you, looking now at my own genealogy and the ones on WikiTree, I am grateful to everyone who is assisting to sort this out.  I think now that the Torrey listings really strengthens the need to unlink Isabel, as much as it is sad to see a supposed 9th great-grmo go, I aim for accuracy!

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Not to worry, we are going to maintain that connection to Isabel, just not as a confirmed spouse. For all I know, she is the correct person, and hopefully time and research will bear that out. Thanks!