Use of number with English title of nobility

Question

I have seen different guidelines about using the number with a title of nobility in England, for example 3d Earl of.. This would be in the Other Nicknames field. The European Aristocrats guidelines say NOT to use the number in the field but put it in the bio.  Magna Carta says DO use the number.  Medieval Project doesn't say one way or another.  In looking at profiles, I see both ways used.

Answer 1

The England Project was part of a "Great Britain and Ireland" consensus group for the categorisation of Titles of Nobility, and for titles originating in England, the following page (almost ready to be ratified!) will give you guidance about what to use  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Titles_and_Styles_of_the_English_Nobility

We use the sequence number of that title in the Nickname Field IF that particular honour has a sequence number. 

Cokayne's "Complete Peerage" second edition had the sequence numbers corrected for multiple creations of the same honour. These are free to view and are linked from the Wikipedia page. 

If in doubt ask here in G2G and be sure to tag your question ENGLAND

Jo, England Project Managed Profiles Team.

Edit: added link to Cokayne's Complete Peerage

Comments

Also if a person was raised to a higher rank in his lifetime (such as a Baronet being created an Earl) then only the higher rank goes in the Nickname field, but the person would still be the holder of both honours.

The person would have two succession boxes (as Elizabeth said in her answer). Sometimes titles went to different people upon the death of the holder depending on the rules of the inheritance of that title, and the succession box is a great way to show that. I'm sorting out the very convoluted inheritances of the Barons Wentworth of Nettlestead at present whose title was inherited by the Noel family who were Baronets and then were raised to Viscounts (3 boxes!). When I have the succession boxes added, I'll add the link here.

Edit: profile for 1st Viscount Wentworth

profile of 2nd Viscount Wentworth

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Thank you--very helpful|

Answer 2

Do not use the number, because inherited titles can be discontinued for several reasons. An old title can be revived years later for the advancement of quite a different family.

Placing the number in the bio provides an opportunity for a brief description & relevance of the title.

Comments

Thanks Valerie, but the England Project does use the sequence number for English profiles IF that particular honour had a recognised sequence.

Jo, England Project Managed Profiles Team

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Thanks Jo, noted, & must check the England Project pages

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Scotland project has their own Name Field Guidelines using Roman numerals that was approved.

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Thanks Linda for pointing this out. I hope it is evident from my replies that I was only speaking for what we do with English titles. Scottish titles are covered here:

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Question was about England, but just wanted to include that Scotland also has Guidelines for the titles and 'numbers.

Answer 3

Using a succession box in the bio for someone with an inherited title is a great way of exactly showing where they fit in the big picture. And if they hold two different titles, which would mean two numbers, you just add a second succession box. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:Succession_box

And here's an example. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Abdy-14

Cheers!

Comments

Now I want to go back through all my profiles with nobility and add succession boxes.

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Yes, they do look very fancy schmancy!