Come on Barbara, I know we're not supposed to ask a lady's age, but...

Question

So, I'm working on Webbs this month, and I decided to try adding the missing Webb baronets. (The first through the fourth were already up on WikiTree, so I added the fifth through the seventh, and then tied them together with succession boxes.) Now, I'm looking to add sources and connections. Now John Webb, the 5th baronet, had a daughter named Barbara Webb, who married Anthony Ashley-Cooper. So I should be able to add a profile for her, and connect the Web baronets to the main trree through an additional path. Easy, right? Wrong. None of the sources I usually consult can tell me her year of birth (or death, for that matter.) Grrr!

Comments

These posh families are always tricky. (Deleted wrong info) I think a bit of care needs to be taken that these are all the same people (I've only had a quick look). Certainly the memorial you have refers to John and his wife Barbara who died in 1740.

1740.     Barbara, wife of Sir John Webb, Bt., of Great Canford, Dorset, and daughter and heir of John Lord Belasyse. A tall altar tomb with urn finial.
1797.     Sir John Webb of Great Canford, Dorset.
"Additional Burial Grounds," in Survey of London: Volume 24, the Parish of St Pancras Part 4: King's Cross Neighbourhood, ed. Walter H Godfrey and W McB. Marcham (London: London County Council, 1952), 147-151. British History Online, accessed June 24, 2023, http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-london/vol24/pt4/pp147-151.

John apparently had several illegitimate children as well. I've only had a quick glance through his Will as it's well over ten pages long. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D328069

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Though Barbara that died in 1740 appears to be John's grandmother, so it needs a lot more research! It's that Findagrave memorial that threw me - it definitely says John 1797 and his wife Barbara 1740, so someone must have got that wrong.

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According to a good old unsourced tree she died on 5th October 1819 in Florence, Italy (edit found also on landed families blogspot (edit 2  contemporary newspaper source at end)

The date seems about right as her will was proved on 24 Jan 1820. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D139679

Ancestry uk link (subscription )

Found on the way

 Husbands memorial at Wimborne St Giles, erected by Barbara in 1811 https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3356842

Her marriage at St James Picadilly

(City of Westminster Archives Centre; London, England; Westminster Church of England Parish Registers; Reference: STJ/PR/6/7 St James Picadilly) sharing link

Also recorded along with other family dates in Wimborne St Giles register. Link (Dorset History Centre; Dorchester, England; Dorset Parish Registers; Reference: PE/WSG: RE 3/1 Wimborne St Giles)

Found one Newspaper confirmation of date of death.

 British Newspaper Archive 

The Scots Magazine - Tuesday 02 November 1819 Register Deaths

Oct 5 At Florence, the Dowager Countess of Shaftesbury

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Just realised that I knew quite a bit about the Webb family in it's earlier years.  The family intermarried with the several of the major families that had remained Catholic after the reformation    Their earliest  known  ancestor is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Webbe-75  (William Webb alias Kellowe) whose daughter, Cecile married a fervent anti protestant . Barbara's great aunt was married to James Radclyffe executed in 1716  and another  Anthony Browne (Viscount Montague)

As Catholics you may not find baptisms in the local parish records . I notice  that her daughter Barbara Ashley Cooper was baptised at the Portuguese chapel in London (baptism noted in the Canford Magna  Wimborne St Giles, parish register I cited in the last comment. )

I've uploaded a snippet  from the Pedigree in Hutchins https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/e/e1/Snippetts-9.jpg

 ( John Hutchins The History and Antiquities of the County of Dorset Third edition, corrected, augmented, and improved by William Shipp and James Whitworth Hodson 1861-73 Vol 3 p 298)   

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/e/e1/Snippetts-9.jpg

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The Gentleman's Magazine for Oct 1819 also has a record of her death in Florence on 5 Oct.

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She waa buried at Wimborne St Giles on Nov 17 1819

Elizabeth  Barbara Countess Dowager of Shaftesbury, Abode, Italy, buried  Nov 17th age 57. (Edited)

Dorchester History Centre, Dorset, England PE WSG RE 6/1 Burial Register Wimborne St Giles. Sharing link 

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The Barbara Webb who died in 1740 is probably Barbara (Belasyse) Webb, wife of John Webb, 3rd baronet Webb.

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I should say that everybody should feel free to put the sources you have dug up (especially those on FamilySearch or behind a paywall, since I can't access them) on the relevant profiles.

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Thanks to your help, I have create a profile for Barbara.

Answer 1

The Complete Peerage, 2nd ed., vol. 11, p. 649 (needs a FamilySearch log-in to access) under section on Earls of Shaftesbury, states that she died 5 Oct 1819 at Florence, aged 57, and her will was probated in 1820.

The Complete Baronetage, vol 2, p. 221 (note b) under section on Webb Baronets, states she was born in 1762.

Neither of these give a source, but they are both considered reliable sources, and at least the dates will help in searching for other sources (the Gentleman's Magazine might be a good source for her death at least).

Answer 2

Thanks Greg - I've created the category for this Baronetcy and all 7 Baronets have been herded into it.

Comments

Oh, thank you, Jo. I didn't know there were categories for baronets. In that case, there's another string of baronets that I put up profiles for some time back, starting with Sir John Slade.

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The six Baronets Slade that I have access to have been corralled into the Slade of Maunsel House category (the 7th is living and unlisted). https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Baronets_Slade_of_Maunsel_House

Here is a quick "How To" for categorising Baronets which the England Project use:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Baronetage_Categorisation_plan_March_2022

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Thank you, Jo. I have added Sir Ben to that category, and added the succession box to his profile.