I've begun a Free Space Copyright page [closed]

Question

I've looked a few G2G questions about copyright and have my own questions about things like take smart phone photos of things so I've started the page but I think much more could be added.  If copyright law is cited, I hope examples will be included as I tried to do.

A Category is now needed for this Free Space page.  Thank you.

Comments

OK, I'm going to accept the majority opinion and take down the Free Space page and just keep the notes on my computer for myself.

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I've changed the privacy rules of the profile, deleted most of the text that the profile contained and added a brief paragraph explaining.

Answer 1

Something else to consider, which I don't think I saw in your page, was the 1978 rule.  After 1978, works are automatically copyrighted and last for x amount of years after the death of a person.

  Copyrighted material before 1978 is not protected unless the owner applies for protection.

I would like to see the number law suits pursued as to using a picture on a web site that doesn't profit anything or is benefited financially because of the picture posting.   For instance, Wikitree does not benefit or gain financially because a picture of a movie star is posted in a profile.

Logo copyrights, I think are a little different.  To keep the copyright protection of a logo, the company has to legally pursue violations.  So, there is a third party site that produces WikiTree shirts or mugs with a Coca Cola Swish and uses the same Coca Cola font.  That is up to the company's legal team to decide if it is worth pursing.

Also, I would like to see what happens if one actually gets into trouble.  Many times, a lawyer will just send a letter and ask that the copyrighted material be removed by a certain date, and if not, further action would be taken. (more of a threat than anything else)

Most of the time, the law suit is about money.  If the lawyer sees a lot of time spent for almost no financial gain for himself, he may tell his client to "forget it".  That's what happened to me.  We didn't get paid for a sign we made, delivered out of state, and it was installed on private property.  We could not get paid, and could not go on the property to remove the sign.  The lawyer sent a letter, which was ignored, and then told us to "forget it" because it would cost more than we could afford to pay his legal fees.

When George Harrison was sued for the "My Sweet Lord" knock off of "He's So Fine" there was millions of dollars at stake.  

What are the real chances a lawyer sends a letter and tells the offender to stop, verses a real law suit?

Answer 2

A couple potential issues to keep in mind:

1. Copyrights are not the same in every country. The copyright durations alone are staggered anywhere from a 'non-copyright-based protection regime' (Marshall Islands) to 'Life +100' (Mexico, effective 2003 non-retroactively). They can even get as complicated as 'Life +0 but at least Publication +50'.

2. Copyrights and 'fair use' are not even remotely clear and concise. These are constantly challenged via courts and often subject to different interpretations.

3. There are many other considerations that have to be taken into account, such as the US First Sale Doctrine. In addition, there are copyright exceptions, or even additional sanctions that can be applied via patent and trademark laws - and again, these vary by country.

Comments

As an aside - this is why WikiTree stresses so much importance on Sources, and why many extract as much information from those sources as needed to convey the information intended.

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And, I was only thinking of U.S. copyright so I'm going to change the page for that so others can add pages elsewhere, as needed.  Thank you.

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I agree with Steve that this would be a Sisyphean boulder to try to manage as a resource for WikiTreers. Intellectual property law is a subspecialty where numerous attorneys practice for entire careers...largely because there are elements of that landscape that are not pristinely defined (certainly not for global interaction) and that are constantly shifting.

As a current example of the latter, it was just 41 days ago that the U.S. Copyright Office issued, via the Federal Register, its policy clarification regarding material generated by use of artificial intelligence.

My familiarity with U.S. copyright law is at best only modest and comes primarily from having run a book publishing company. But my day-to-day work still occasionally involves copyright matters, and I subscribe to the Law360 newsfeed for intellectual property law to try to stay somewhat current. Hardly a day goes by without new posts about cases, opinions, and news stories.

My immediate thought is that a compilation of informational, external links would be more manageable, more relevant, and also could never be construed as providing legal advice.

It's going to be exceedingly difficult to offer a copyright how-to guideline for a global community like WikiTree, but links by country to published law, opinions, and case precedents could be very helpful. In the end, it's up to each of us to research the applicability of copyright for something we plan to use based upon the type of media, origin, legal jurisdiction, and type and extent of that use.

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In the end, it's up to each of us to research the applicability of copyright for something we plan to use based upon the type of media, origin, legal jurisdiction, and type and extent of that use.

100% agreed!

(This the only way for me to provide an 'upvote' for this content).

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It wasn't my intention to offer a complete guide to copyright law just a few rules to keep in mind while we're working and also to open discussion.  Maybe it should be a channel in Discord; I don't know.  It came up this morning for a reason I've already forgot but I also wanted a place to put a few rules and some resources that WikiTreers could go to for guidance.  I agree it's a huge topic and even the U.S. copyright office web site leaves you feeling like it's left up to the courts on a case by case basis.

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...like it's left up to the courts on a case by case basis.

That's because they are :) The only way to enforce copyright violations is through the courts.

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I'm with Steven Harris and Edison Williams on this. I worked for the last 8+ years as head of the Open Source Program Office for a $3B+ engineering company and I regularly worked closely with the Chief Intellectual Property (IP) Counsel of that company. We discussed copyright, trademarks, and IP law.

While we can all discuss what we think might be the rules, this area is not cut-and-dry. As was said, things are constantly shifting.

I will also throw out something that will be somewhat controversial: A potential copyright infringement is only worth it if money can be gotten out of it. Let's do a thought experiment. Let's say, for example, someone here makes a photocopy of a page or two from a more recently published book and uploads it to WikiTree as a genealogical source. Would it be considered Fair Use (let's assume U.S. law)? Would the publisher think that it might be copyright infringement? For a single instance? Are they going to go through the cost of initiating very expensive litigation? Against a single person who did the uploading? Do they think they are going to get any compensation for the damage that they think happened by one person uploading 1-2 pages? See where this is going? The likelihood that this will happen will be very, very slim. There are 2 likely scenarios: It will be ignored as not worth the time / money. Or, at the most, a takedown notice will be issued, which will be immediately complied with. 

You have to remember that companies go through an elaborate risk vs. reward scenario planning. If they are going to risk spending money on an expensive lawsuit (and all lawsuits are expensive because lawyers), they are looking to get a reward out of it. Suing individuals that don't have the money commensurate to what they are going to spend is not a good business decision. I've had this exact discussion with my Chief IP Counsel. This is how they think.

So, in my opinion (with the usual IANAL), the risk of a copyright infringement lawsuit is extremely low. But it is never zero. But I don't think the issue is worth putting together a Free Space Page about it all. Because the FSP can't capture everything and it can't act as legal advice.

My advice is to drop the FSP. It's just not worth the time, energy and hassle. Better to just do good, well-sourced genealogy and have fun that way.