Is there a way to tag groups for Y-DNA test kits?

Question

I have kept my RICE line as my primary focus throughout my years of research.
Background: By way of a 2nd cousin's Y-DNA test, our RICE family has been assigned its group in the FTDNA RICE DNA surname project.
WikiTree DNA connections: I have been studying Rice-xxxx profiles on W/T for years, and recently found a profile where two are listed in the 'connection' section. The problem is when I go to the project kit list provided by the surname project managers on FTDNA, the kits fall into separate/unrelated groups.
Question: Is there a way to provide WikiTree members a means to TAG themselves with a Y-DNA surname project group indicator (if not using the term, 'group,' maybe something else)?
When I found the cross in groups on the profile mentioned above, I contacted both members, who connected themselves to the profile. I've yet to hear back from either of them. I can imagine many reasons why not, so let me make it clear - I'm not complaining. But, if we each KNOW our surname connection per project, and we include the 'tag' or whatever it should be called, we'd see our error before, during, or after connecting to a profile - once our personal group tag showed up next to a differing group tag.

Creating this as an example:
PROFILE for "Rice-0000"
DNA "connections":
Bob Rice-0XXX = belongs to group 1 of dna surname project
Joe Rice-0YYY = belongs to group 9 of dna surname project
...if an indicator was included, as below, someone should see a problem almost immediately:
Bob Rice-0XXX 'G1'
Joe Rice-0YYY 'G9'

These tags/indicators could also be used in the "(surname) DNA Connections" list ---- and we'd be able to group/sort  by them... maybe?

I'm sorry if I'm not making my point(s)/question clear... esp. to anyone unfamiliar with surname projects (in this instance one through FTDNA).

Answer 1

You're looking for this: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:DNA_Categorization_for_Projects, in particular the Y-STR categories that can be created to show those groups. Then the categories can be added to the profiles where they belong.

We're trying to do something similar for the Crawford Name Study (see the DNA pages). However, I'm finding that some of the lines make no sense as currently tied together, because there are tests on two sides that don't match. 

Mags Gaulden tells me that the DNA project is working on functionality that will display Y-DNA Haplogroups on family trees, so that conflicts will be easy to see (example: I2 on one side and R-M269 on the other, both linked to the same progenitor). I don't know when this is happening, but I anticipate it in the next few months (I hope). This will help to highlight where more research can be applied effectively. 

Comments

If I fully understand, it sounds a lot like what I'm imagining.
I need to think harder on what you mean by "some of the lines make no sense as currently tied together because there are tests on two sides that don't match."
I think* I understand, but might need it mapped out to make sure there's not something I'm failing to consider.
Note: Rice-16073 = The haplogroup for each of the two connecting to this HENRY is the same, R-M269.

Thank you for your answer. I'm anxious to see what they come up with in regards to your issues, *esp. after taking a look at your FTDNA Crawford project charts.

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I can claim no credit for the FTDNA work, that's all Dave Nicolson. I'm just trying to translate that over here, so we can search for a particular grouping by using a category and see who the descendants/ancestors are who fit into it

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I should clarify the "two lines tied to one progenitor" thing more. I was finding members with Y-DNA tests from FTDNA, and starting with the EKA working down the list of Y-descendants, adding categories. I was contacted by a couple of different people regarding branches where they did not agree, because a cousin of theirs had a test on WikiTree with a different haplogroup. (someone not necessarily in the FTDNA study).

I suggested in G2G that we add the "presumed" Y-DNA haplogroup to the family tree view for family members in the Y-DNA ancestral and descendant chains, for anyone who has taken such a test. This would help identify conflicts where one line of sons says they are haplogroup R while another says they are haplogroup I, or similar situations.

This indicates that the paper trail on WikiTree is missing something, and should be reviewed, and helps us make our tree more accurate. You can then try to find ways to sort out where along the descendants things need to be disconnected.

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One thing I really like about WikiTree is the collaborative drive to get things RIGHT. Use of this method would certainly help.
My case is somewhat different, however. Both people claiming the same distant ancestor, *Henry, have the same haplo > while their markers suggest they descend from different beds (one in project group 4 and the other in group 7A). Mind you, one test was only 37 values, but out of those few, 17 are different, some by 3. In this case, a haplo tag would need to be combined with some other indicator. Am I missing anything?

I am of no help, for sure, not able to Y test, and not being part of a DNA project. I'm looking at it from a "huh?" angle, using what little I know. Maybe I need to run this by a member of my Rice family Group 7, of the RICE project.

Here's to making things better by getting it as close to right as possible... (the accountant in me wants it balanced to the penny!) Wink.

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I can't see the Rice project results, but it sounds like you are onto something. So the trick would be to walk up from each person, identifying where the weak points are in the paper trail, and trying to identify records to prove/disprove the assumed relationships. Testing with cousins using auDNA could help that, to show that assumed relationships are/are not likely. That only works for so far back, but you can build a case of evidence. 

If either/both can upgrade to Yfull or (super ideally) whole genome, then you can use that to confirm things more too.

Document your findings on the profiles along the trail that seem under-documented, showing in Research Notes section what you've found and why you're doing what you're doing. (see https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Crawford-420 as my example of this in my family)

Good luck to you! And until you figure it out, just file the genetic discrepancies under Genealogical IBNR...

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It is still "in the works" :-)

Answer 2

Here is a proposal to automate the flagging of mismatching Y-DNA in the same patrilineal line:

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1326329/proposal-haplogroups-through-linked-indicate-discrepancies

WikiTree would only look at the first letter of the haplogroup (and only find major mismatches). Thus I-Z59 would be flagged as different from R1a1a or R-M512.

The above link includes: “…. March 2020:

Suggestion for Y-DNA:  Have WikiTree place a notification above (or below) the list of Y-DNA testers when the first letter of their haplogroup don’t match.

Haplogroups are different (i). [highlighted in dull red]

Clicking on (i) above links to an explanation, e.g. Two or more Y chromosome testers in this direct paternal line belong to fundamentally different haplogroups and thus can not share an ancestor in their direct paternal line shown here.  More research is necessary to determine which father/son relationship is incorrect.

[An example of where that notification would appear is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stewart-23783 That notification should also appear on every other profile on the tester’s direct paternal line.]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Suggestion for mtDNA:  Have WikiTree place a notification above (or below) the list of mtDNA testers when the first letter of their haplogroup don’t match.

Haplogroups are different (i). [highlighted in dull red]

Clicking on (i) above links to an explanation, e.g. Two or more mitochondrial DNA testers in this direct maternal line belong to fundamentally different haplogroups and thus can not share an ancestor in their direct maternal line shown here.  More research is necessary to determine which mother/child relationship is incorrect.

[An example of where that notification would appear is https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Toemmes-1 That notification should also appear on every other profile on the tester’s direct maternal line.]”

Here is how to categorize Y-DNA test kits which match (are in the same Y-DNA project group) but their earlier patrilineal line    ancestry is incomplete: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:DNA_Categorization_for_Projects

Comments

I like that Peter. Are you aware of what Mags is discussing that the DNA project is working on (is this it)? I think they're working with Jamie et al to add indicators somewhere, but I haven't seen any specifics yet.

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I'm aware that something similar to this proposal is on WikiTree's to do list.

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Thanks Peter!