Why we should take multiple DNA tests? Ever hit a brick wall?

Question

For those of us who share our DNA tests results, THANK YOU!  I've gathered as much as I can on my family lines from sources and other shared trees, but still have dead ends.  How can I bust thru them?  Some DNA matches of mine share trees, and others just match with no tree.  Nice to share, but how does no tree help me and help my research?  PLENTY!

I've taken tests with MyHeritage, FamilyTree, 23andme and Ancestry.  And yes, all are uploaded to GEDMATCH and shared on WikiTree.   Thank you again for all of you who did the same.  Note that all DNA brands have strengths and weaknesses.  So many people test, but never communicate or review their communications from others.  Maybe not researching.., or just tested to see their genetic makeup and nothing more.  Good news and bad news right?  I discovered by testing with many brands, I could find people who are not on the other sites.  Many tests are not uploaded to share on GEDMATCH,  So if not shared somewhere, you will not find them if they tested on a DNA branded site you did not test on.  What is fantastic, is these brands show your matches and their regions.  You can get a lot just off that!  If you don't test with these other brands, then you may never get these clues.

One other thing is with ANCESTRY, you can share your DNA test and these multiple DNA tests can be switched back and forth as you review your matches.  So if a cousin matches your match, you know which paternal line you are reviewing..  It brings things more into focus..  It is a great asset and unique to Ancestry.  I was no fan to the Subscription at Ancestry, but you can share, and share the cost!  For this reason alone.. If you can work together with someone on a combined tree, Ancestry is the brand to stick with. Then upload to GEDMATCH and share on WikiTree.

So, true DNA shared matches and these people who share trees will contain errors and those bad assumptions are repeated many times.   DNA sharing helps fix some of these errors by being able to examine some facts that do not exist (yet) on paper.   True shared DNA with others is vague, but what really helps if a match and a tree exists, or even without sharing their tree, their genetic REGIONS are available for review..  If you can find a small amount of DNA in a particular region, you can then look for others who also share this trait.  This trait would most likely follow your one path to one of the pairs of your dead end.  Ancestry is fantastic for this tool of finding two people who have ancestors in common.  You select a DNA match, and then select people in common with.    You can view trees if available, or regions.  If one of these matches shares this rare trait of yours, you can note it or group these persons as part of your brick wall family line you are researching.  Add them into your research tree and build upon that.  You will be able to find many matches to this line, and hopefully be able to inch worm again with research on a group of people who share this matching DNA with you.  At least this dead branch will have new life.   Puzzles with missing pieces are not fun to build, but a found piece that fits somewhere is exciting.   Happy hunting.

Comments

My opinion, Are any of your half siblings male Lynda? Same unknown male line ? If so Y-line DNA test that male at Family Tree DNA get at least the 111 marker test or spring for the Big Y also do the Family Finder test.   Y line matches can give you clues to a surname.  Family Finder will give you  matches you can add your tree and start to put the cousin matches on your mother's side in the maternal bucket (they help you group paternal and maternal matches in buckets on the site).  Process of elimination for finding which are the paternal cousins at that point.  Build out private test trees from those matches trees to find common ancestors and work down from there to present day.  Sharing from others becoming important at that point, male , right age, place and time. That may start to make your Ancestry DNA matches make more sense to you also.

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Linda,  Since you did Ancestry and added to Gedmatch, you have a great start.  download the rawDNA from Ancestry and add it to FamilyTree Autosomal Transfers – FamilyTreeDNA Learning Center

Now you will have three sites where you can view DNA matches.  You may not be able to do any research on those sites, but you can continue your research on Ancestry.  Add some of these connection to your Ancestry tree.  Even if you cannot connect them now, get them into your tree and note where you found these matches by listing the site and DNA cM's you match (Strength).  Once in your Ancestry tree, you should be able to mark them as a DNA match and see the mark on each in your tree.  I'm hoping Ancestry will share this match with thrulines so your match if also on Ancestry will see it, and any cousins and so on.   The more people see connecting DNA the more access you will also see.  A DNA match on another site is still a DNA match in Ancestry even if they do not exist there.  Hopefully you will see a hint on how to build out their tree, and attach to one of their cousins in Ancestry.  That's how to build out your tree.   Always note why an unconnected branch is in your Ancestry tree so you can see why not to remove this DNA match.  Ancestry allows you to keep notes..   You can add this person to a group, or also filter on notes so you can review if any new hints popup as more people test on Ancestry... 

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Loretta,  Yes YDNA helps with the male line, but it is very difficult to get any results with.  Autosomal DNA at least gives you the cM's you match on for all lines of your tree for six generations.  YDNA is a whole different animal.  YDNA mutates every 9 generations or so, so this stability (or decay) give us the probability of weather two men share a common ancestor.  That MRCA in the male line may be 16 generations away..  How many of us know with certanty our male line in our tree is good for 16 generations?  Seems to me most people know grandparents and some great grandparents.  Very few of us are researchers using all the tools available to us.  I'm hoping new DNA users are looking for tools on how to find people when no trees are present.  FamilySearch is a good start, then DNA to prove someone else's work right?  Thanks for your post, and you are absolutly correct.. YDNA will eventually show the male MRCA..  It's just almost no male matches reply.. Could be a different language, as for me in the USA am looking out 16 generations for my MRCA and maybe Finnish, French or German..  And a whole different surname for sure...  That's pretty advanced research and not for anyone new to DNA

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Thanks Loretta

 My half siblings all share the same mother   we all have different  fathers

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Thanks Kirk

 I did try the FTDNA  but it was so confusing at the time

Maybe I will try again

Sorry to hijack the thread

Lynda

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Kirt... all correct.  Family Finder is the autosomal test at FTDNA and hopefully that will be the part that yields some new matches for her and I agree she should use Ancestry to help place those matches.   While I do agree that it is the more important of the tests for finding closer relatives on either side, while, or if ,she has a male tester available I think a Y-line test is also important in the long run.   I had my birth Uncle (the older of only of two males in that line of my tree, and I am not sure the other would have agreed to a test or more precisely if his wife would have agreed :)  .   I am so glad I did get him get to know him, and get him to test.  As he passed a few years ago now, and so I can continue my quest to break one more brick wall and it's just a matter of connecting the dots between Nathaniel Morrison in NC to the Morrison's which are 37 to 12 marker matches in Scotland.  It may never happen I may never get that paper trail ,but at least I know where I should be headed :)  without the Y-line test I wouldn't even know if I should be looking where I am for sure.  And oh yes, I agree hardly anybody responds anymore unless you have their cell number and text them, makes the research even harder.

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Well hopefully the autosomal test of Family Finder will help you at FTDNA get some additional matches, Lynda !!    There's also 23 and Me, but sometimes again not a bunch of responsive matches or trees to compare to, in my experience anyway.  Many folks test there more for medical genetics.

Kirt, thank you for all the advise, sometimes we all need to be reminded of all the good tools our modern day DNA testing provides!

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Loretta,  If I'm understanding Lynda correctly.. Her siblings are all showing different fathers, and mother is deceased without providing answers.  YDNA in this case would help, but don't know who the male is..   YDNA won't help until we know who dad is.  But absolutely, if we want to go way back YDNA is the key..  I believe Lynda is just interested in who her birth father is... She has all the tools she needs.  Just needs to know how to use them to find answers..  Bottom up usually building out tree, then back down.  In this case though, Lynda needs to build a tree for her closest matches ignoring a side of her tree if it doesn't apply to her.   She found someone on Gedmatch and can build off that.  And of course supplement with Ancestry DNA and build the tree there.  The leaf hints are sure to follow...

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Yeah, I was typing my post Kirt as she put up her post... so yes, no male tester at this point.   Maybe using some of the tools she now has she will find one someday a Father, Uncle, or brother.  I wish you well in your search Lynda !  I know I am glad I gave my husband the present of a new half brother for several years , and new best friend as well, until he passed this last Christmas.  We really miss him.  It's one of the best zillion hour (well it felt like it at the time) puzzles I have ever spent time piecing together.  I hope it turns out well for you.

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Oh, that's great Kirt... I wasn't sure that FTDNA was still taking Autosomal transfers from Ancestry. Nice they still are.

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Thank Loretta  for the comments

 Some people do not have much luck on 23 & Me

I think Ancestry is more popular  for those doing their tree

 I agree people just do not answer the messages even in Ancestry

I have had some success in getting replies  but  about  50/50  responses

Did you do the AU test with   FTDNA or the YDNA?

I cannot do the YDNA  as no males  that I know of  & Bio dad is probably long gone  as I was born late 40's

It is  a work in progress  that is for sure

Lynda

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Lynda, My husband and I both did FTDNA autosomal, Ancestry DNA, 23 & Me and are uploaded in GEDMATCH.  My birth Uncle and my husband both did Y testing at FTDNA as well as the Family Finder (autosomal test). Yes, as I said, I hope you can find who you father was someday  Don't lose hope, use the tools, good luck to you truly!

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Lynda, You will have new matches coming all the time, so maybe useful ones will turn up.

I've also had people answer Ancestry messages even after two or three years.

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Julie

Yes  since Sept 2020  I have had over 100 new DNA matches

some  good  some  still working on

 Yes some people do not seem to check Ancestry after  a while & maybe do not have the messages turned on  to be contacted

I have found some good leads from other family members I did not know   so that was helpful in my tree

Thanks

Lynda

Answer 1

I have taken two tests: Ancestry and LivingDNA.  I have uploaded them to GEDMatch, and marked them on WikiTree.

Biggest waste of time and money I have come across.  Neither test told me anything different to what I had already proved by paper.  The only 'connections' I have found are 3rd-5th cousins.  Not interested in relationships that far distant.  Nobody has leapt screaming with delight on my tree, having broken a brick wall.  My own brick walls still remain as opaque as they ever were.

Bored now.  Off to do some real genealogy.

Comments

Ros,

Sorry you feel that way.  I see from your tree here on WikiTree you have built it out quite a bit.  What is missing is DNA of people who are on WikiTree and who match you here.  I''m assuming on Ancestry you have many matches and are using those persons for your in depth research.  I know you understand that ThruLines can contain many errors.  I was just suggesting we look at regions for additional clues that might help break thru a brick wall.  You are not doubting a DNA match is a relation to you are you?  for 50$ and an additional DNA test, how can that list of leads be considered a waste of money?  Consider it absolute sales leads, proven to be in your line.. just where do they fit?  Again a found puzzle piece that has yet to be placed..  For you, and a pretty established tree, you need clues like DNA to help fit others in if interested.  If you are only interested in your direct line, you are done..  I was referring to help for others who have few in their tree, and wanted to know how to look for clues on how to proceed further.  Thanks for your comment.  I get that!

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Ros, regarding real genealogy, I think most modern professional genealogists consider DNA as part of the genealogical evidence we should consider in doing a thorough review.

For example, the Board for Certification of Genealogists, in its  Genealogy Standards Second Edition Revised says:  "The Genealogical Proof Standard requires researchers to consider all relevant evidence.  Such consideration includes DNA evidence."

Edited to note professional genealogists; don't we aspire to do professional-quality work?

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I agree with Julie, Ros. I have used DNA to find matches which appear to break a hole in my brick wall. Now I am using traditional genealogy to prove as much of the connection that I can. Of course I am having to use more distant cousins to prove the closer lines, but it totally changes the family storyline. DNA has verified a connection my mother made between Fraziers. She surmised that a particular line was connected to our line but she had no proof. Through a distant cousin, I now have proof that we are indeed related. A lot of birth and marriage records either never existed or were destroyed during the Civil War, so it has been very difficult making connections. Mothers and wives died during treacherous times and were never listed on early census records, and certainly not with their maiden names. Families became disconnected and trying to piece them together again is a challenge. DNA may be our only hope, but it takes work and patience. I'm sorry you haven't found the connections you seek.

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Thanks Edie,

Yes, I too am finding family lines with DNA, but just am missing maybe one more DNA connection, or a new person to test and share.  Waste of time, maybe.. but aren't puzzles just that.  Soon another brick wall will fall, and I'm enjoying the journey as I share this mystery yet to be solved with my siblings.  We have so many more tools than my parents did when they started to map out their tree on a huge roll of butcher paper..  Yes sources on paper have burned or been tossed away with flooding.  But DNA remains, and if we share it's a whole new way to gather a connection where no paper trail exists..

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Perhaps I should have spoken more clearly.  'Waste of time' for me.  For other people, DNA testing is obviously a terrific way of tracing your genealogy.  Wonderful clues to break brick walls.  And then, as Edie says, "Now I am using traditional genealogy to prove as much of the connection that I can."

Just don't ignore the paper trail in favour of the scientific trail. :)

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Yes, Kirt, and think about how now you can do in a minute what it took your parents hours to do after a wait of weeks.  Did you ever (physically) scroll through one of those old census microfilms?  I used to order them through my local Family History Center (which we called the "Mormon Library" at the time), or drive to the National Archives and spend the day there.

If you spend much time with DNA, you may get to a point, as I have, that you can make a fan chart of your tree, mark the confirmed lines, and see in an instant where your problems (the unconfirmed lines) are.  And if you have a large group, or several, of unidentified matches who all match each other, that's a sure sign that there is information there waiting for you to figure it out.

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Absolutely right, Ros.  DNA evidence in the absence of a logical theory of how the ancestors happened to be in the right place at the right time is probably being misinterpreted.  Sometimes records for a person just don't exist, or are extremely limited, but at the very least we should search for records, and make sure also that there aren't any that contradict our theories.

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Indeed!  Thanks all..

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I rarely look at my DNA matches now. I think it must be a  very different  experience for those using DNA in North America . The population tested is predominantly based there..When the UK government recently looked into the feasibilty (and ethics) of  using  genetic genealogy sites for forensic purposes, one of the stated  drawbacks was that Gedmatch was  US centric.

My brick walls are in England. These are people who didn't migrate.

 My few resolved  DNA matches are a small number of descendants from very recent relatives still living in the UK (my  maternal g father had 11 siblings). They could all have been found by traditional genealogy . Other than that, there  is one Canadian who shares a 5x grandparent with me. (x chromosome pattern confirms  the records ) but I could have found the relationship without the DNA.  Otherwise there are a hundreds of distant  relatives living in N America. The people who match mostly  haven't the foggiest idea where their migrant ancestors came from. Finding their emigrant ancestor by meticulously tracing each of  my ancestor's siblings forwards  might help  them but It won't help me with my brick walls.

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Ros, I decided to go look at your profile and I see why DNA means so little to you. You are so blessed to be from a country which has meticulous church and civil records for hundreds of years! Those of us in the U.S. are in dire straits as we move away from the Northeast where meticulous records were kept and into unsettled areas, at least where written records were not as meticulously kept. Or where they were destroyed. There are huge gaps in our family histories. And, yes, that is probably one reason why we are avid DNA-test-takers.

Edited to clarify to whose comment I was responding.

Answer 2

Looks like we’re distant 15th cousins seems to be highly confident. We share a common ancestor Richard Baldwin (abt. 1500 - bef. 1553) on my paternal French side. 

Comments

Andrew,  Surly you jest!   That far back, is really in question..  Do me a favor and use the DNA confirmation tool to change your relationships to confident or hopefully DNA confirmed.  Way too many confidence unknown for both of us to believe we are certain of our MRCA.  It is fun though...

The DNA ccitation tool is fantastic in helping all of us know what is proven via DNA and what may be a best guess that looks like a proven fact.   Hope this helps.

DNA Citation tool: https://apps.wikitree.com/apps/clarke11007/DNAconf.php

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I like the dna tool as it’s helped me such as my 5th gg Jeremiah Gibbs his children’s lineage connecting with those cousins. They have trees so can see the lineage which is great. Yup 15th is a stretch 

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I forgot to mention it’s connected those adopted in my paternal grandmothers side and helped reconnect. Amazing tech!

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Glad to hear that!  Some hate DNA and the problems associated with these broken family lines.  Other's like us seem to be open to welcoming in all that was, and is now.  No judgements, just loving we are not alone in our space capsules..  There is a whole new universe out there.. Truly AMAZING STUFF!   The right stuff...  And all because so many of us share..  Without that, we would never know..

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Well said Kirt

Answer 3

Kirt, I agree that testing on multiple sites can yield additional information.  Some sites allow upload of Ancestry raw DNA data, so people might want to investigate that first before spending money on separate tests.

I also agree about the value of GEDmatch, and of Ancestry's DNA tools.  WikiTree also provides some unique DNA tools (which are maybe not well understood).

You mentioned matches without trees, or with trees filled with errors, etc.  One thing I've found very useful is to build down my Ancestry tree for descendants of the siblings of my ancestors.  Often I can get far enough to locate for myself some of those poorly-documented matches.

Several bloggers have written about means of identifying matches.  Here are a couple of posts:

https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/2017/03/11/are-you-doing-everything-to-identify-your-matches/

https://www.lostcousins.com/newsletters2/aug19news.htm#DNAmasterclass

Jim Bartlett at segmentology.org also writes a lot about using matches.

Comments

Julie,  Excellent addition to my original post.  Yes, use all these tools to bust through that brick wall.  Many of us know this, but others who are looking for clues, may discover this post, will hopefully read all these great comments.   Thanks for helping point us in the right direction, and use all the tools that are available to us for free!    So many great helpful comments..  Thanks to all!

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You're welcome!

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Yes Julie , nice point... it's like as you build down the descendants in a line ... light bulb! Now I know why I have these Colby or XYZ cousins all coming up related to my great grandma XYZ !

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Thanks, Loretta.

Answer 4

I have broken 2 brick walls in my own birth family tree with DNA testing.  Disproven a few others.

 I  was adopted I went the easy route and had my records opened by the court. We both fish for matches in every pool.  I have 3 more birth sisters I hope will someday test as they had closed adoptions too. However, and my husband was , well let's call it adopted for lack of a better word for, a long story.  

I found his birth father and birth grandfather due to Ancestry DNA matching 3rd cousins, building out trees as you say, (thank goodness they shared at the time) both father and grandfather were non-paternal events in this male line.  Also a 3rd non paternal event about 4th or 5th great grandfather, which I am still working on .

Records are great , but in both our case records would all be wrong!  If anyone thinks that out of their 4092, 10 time great grandparents not a single one had a non paternal event, adoption or something in the up or down the line someplace ....it's a head in the sand.  Now I am not saying that every line of mine is DNA confirmed but I try to figure out most back at least a few generation.  

Thank you for all who have and will share information! We both have new family friends from our pursuit.

Comments

Loretta,  Good for you.   Yes weather adopted or discovered your line was not what it appeared to be, and a new insertion for you into your tree, you have the right attitude.  I agree many of us have this discovery that is not on paper, and are turning a blind eye to the fact it is proving to have occurred more than we might have thought.  Regardless, you are discovering your roots, and this makes you WHOLE.  I'm enjoying popping my DNA connections into my tree, and hope you are enjoying it also.  If others are upset with the matching DNA and are in denial, you are right, their blocking the truth,  We shouldn't care to rock their worlds, just be happy in our new discovery..  Document your findings..  The facts if displayed, are proof, and math is constant, and undeniable, although upsetting to some..  Facts are facts.. Glad to see you are happy and busy looking under stones, as am I.  Thank you for your post.

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Kirt, We neither one probably believe it but we show up 14th cousins 1 removed .   Ha , Ha ! MCRA [[Warren-47|Richard Warren (bef.1501-abt.1557)]] .  Might be though, some of my Plymouth families are pretty well proven and documented unless an NPE was  way back somewhere :)  Of course, you could always pick one of our other 18 or so shared ancestors, chances are we are super distant cousins somehow, me and millions of others.

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Loretta,  Using the connection finder, you are more closely related to my wife.  My Wife is also a 17th cousin of mine, but don't tell anyone..   Don't forget to use the DNA citation tool to confirm with DNA those lines you have proven.  It helps all of us.   If you can use the citation tool (I mentioned above) to link us back the 16 generations, then you deserve a prize...  Thanks for your comment..  See you again when we confirm via DNA..  Please firm your known connections as confident or via DNA..

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My husband and I, turns out in our birth families, are cousins about 7 ways!  Don't tell anyone .... He was a military kid and the guy he thought was father was from Wisconsin,  mom we had no idea she had been MIA almost at birth and was "dead" until he was 28  .  But amazingly our birth families were together in Virginia, Kentucky and on here to mid and Southern Missouri. (we didn't have children together and it's not super close cousins, no worries :)-    Instant DNA attraction in like minds?

Answer 5

Cousin Kirt,

I have tested with the same four providers and have uploaded to GEDmatch and created superkits (plural as one was stitched together using POSIX commands and the other using a GEDmatch Tier 1 utility).

I cannot agree that Ancestry is the only one that shows shared matches but I will say they have the largest pool of tested individuals and the largest pool of trees.  Their ThruLines works very well (yes, it can throw false positives but that is because it is dependent on the accuracy of people's trees).  It is not unique as MyHeritage provides the same service but given the greater pool of test takers and trees, Ancestry is more effective.

Many brick walls have crumbled based on DNA evidence.  Beyond third cousins, triangulation is being used to confirm but even when that cannot be accomplished, the number of matches can often raise confidence in a suggested relationship.  

One of my brick walls fell due to yDNA testing but that would not have been possible without breaking some earlier walls down with autosomal testing.

Answer 6

All,

By far the biggest Pandemic gain for my tree has been the time to build my lines down, often to current day. Family Search was great for sourcing while libraries and courthouses were closed. Along the way I've connected many others, grown my tree, also using auDNA.

This effort began many years ago, 2 of our Mitchell testers were part of FTDNA's pioneer project, back in the time of only 12 marker test availability. Two kits were mixed up on shelves and we spent years trying to connect to one of the wrong people. Consequently all of our tests were upgraded by Bennett at no charge.

Sourcing down to the max possible led to connecting 10 FTDNA YDNA matches back to our MRCA's 1550 England. ALL with solid paper trails! It took years literally and we've lost 50% of our original testers. Glad we have some young.

Too often I see "spouse" and "1 child" on profiles, building down allows other cousins to connect and in the end grows our tree. Regardless of testing company, please add branches to your trees.