Can we clean up this Beauchamp lineage?

Question

Elizabeth Ann (Beauchamp) Rucker is currently connected as the mother of an immigrant to colonial Virginia, and as the sister of an immigrant to New France.  The profile is pre-1700 and only lists Ancestry.com trees as sources.   According to her profile, she was born in "Poitou-Charentes" (a modern-day entity that corresponds with parts of the historical Angoumois, Aunis, Poitou, and Saintonge provinces), and then has her mysteriously marrying in Bavaria to an Ambrose Levi Rucker.

The profile for her supposed brother, Jacques Beauchamp, references several siblings, none of them being an Elisabeth Anne.  Further, the biography for her supposed son states that his origins are unknown.

There appear to be other issues with this Beauchamp lineage as well.  Earlier this year, it was extended back to the early 1500s using only FamilySearch trees, and includes a member of the Collineau de Montaguerre family.  For more discussion of that family, see this previous G2G discussion here.

Comments

Not to mention that a whole group of Deschamps from the 16th-17th centuries magically got the surname "Beauchamp dit Deschamps". Which is absolutely not the way the use of two similar names for the same person in the registers should be rendered.

Answer 1

The origin of "Olivier Giarde Deschamps dit Beauchamp" and Julienne Baret is probably the marriage of Olivier Deschamps and Julienne Baret, on 8 September 1630 in the parish Saint-Germain of Rennes. This marriaged was indexed by Association Parchemin (AGBH) and has probably been available in Ancestry and other sites's collections for years. Couples from marriages indexed by Parchemin are very popular online.

Their alleged child on WikiTree was assigned a 1560 birthdate, so it doesn't add up.

Answer 2

The end-of-line couple, Louis Deschamps dit Beauchamp and Julienne Chevillard, appears to match the marriage, on 20 April 1720 in Dinan (Brittany), of Louis Deschamps and Julienne Chevillard, also indexed by Association Parchemin and therefore available in indexed marriage collections.

Comments

time machine again I see

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If you'd like to see a real good time machine at work, check out the research notes on André Parent.

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 ooooh, I want that machine!  

Answer 3

The origin of the pairing of Marc Deschamps with "Marguerite Collineau de Montaguerre" could be two indexed baptisms in Angers, a boy Jean in 1583 and a daughter, Jacquine, in 1584. The parents are identified as Marc Deschamps and Marguerite - there is no last name provided for Marguerite, which explains the familiar addition of "Collineau de Montaguerre", a bogus family name.

Since these people lived in Angers, they are highly unlikely to be the parents of Michel Deschamps, whose orgins were in Périgord.

The indexes are available at FamilySearch:

"France, Naissance et baptêmes, 1546-1896", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F98C-9M8 : 13 September 2019), Marc Deschamps in entry for Jacquine Deschamps, 1584.

"France, Naissance et baptêmes, 1546-1896", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F98H-GLJ : 13 September 2019), Marc Deschamps in entry for Jean Deschamps, 1583.

Answer 4

See also https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1199980/how-to-resolve-ambrose-rucker-is-not-father-to-rucker-26 for the other side of the equation (Peter Rucker's parents)

Answer 5

There are only two children named on the couple PRDH (#83747) for Michel Beauchamp and Marie Roullet: Jacques born 1635 and Jean born 1644.  Neither Jean's Fichier Origine (#240239) nor Jacques' Fichier Origine (#240238) mention a sister Elizabeth Anne or any other siblings. I am finding no evidence that this Elizabeth is the daughter of this couple.

Answer 6

ok, well first off, suggest disconnection as parents of Jean Beauchamp of  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Deschamps_dit_Beauchamp-1 Marc Deschamps dit Beauchamp and his ''wife'' Collineau de Montaguerre, I went through a lot of work getting rid of that imaginary woman before in my ancestry, really don't want her back again.

As far as Élizabeth, no evidence whatsoever that she belongs in this family, Beauchamp is not particularly rare as a name.  Detach.

Edited as name corrected for Jean Beauchamp

Answer 7

As the PM for these Beauchamp profiles, I have added the sources mentioned here and adjusted the surnames as outlined.

Some of the profiles I could not edit because of pre1500 status, so I have left profile messages for those PMs to make adjustments including surname.

Comments

Thank you. The clean-up of the Deschamps part seems complete now.

Answer 8

Please note that there is a source "Emigration rochelaise en Nouvelle-France / "Families from La Rochelle in Canada" by Roland J. Auger" that has an image on a number of these family profiles which specifically mentions that this family is

"Deschamps, alias Beauchamp"

Comments

that is actually Auger citing Godbout, he reproduced Godbout's work, Roland Auger was archivist in this province and did a lot of work like this.

Since we do not have the baptisms for Jean and his son  Michel, we don't actually know what their last name at birth truly is, the children of Michel are baptized under the name Beauchamp, 2 of them coming to New France (Jacques & Jean)

[http://numerique.banq.qc.ca/patrimoine/details/52327/2276332?docsearchtext=Archange%20Godbout%20La%20Rochelle Rapport de l'Archiviste de la province de Québec, 1970 ''Familles venues de La Rochelle en Canada'' Père Archange Godbout (débute pg 119)] pg 144-5

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this family is "Deschamps, alias Beauchamp"

My understanding is that on Wikitree, names are for individuals, not for families. The fact that one individual uses two names does not imply that all the line should have both names.

In this particular case, what are the documented uses of Deschamps? I could only find one, the marriage of Michel Deschamps and Marie Roullet in 1630 (top right). He is named Michel Beauchamp in the baptisms of his children (and his wife Marie Raulet, but it seems to be the same couple). If this is the only occurrence, then it is probably a mistake of the priest and we can drop the "dit Deschamps" and just mention it in the research notes.

If we want to keep both names, it seems more logical to call him Michel Deschamps dit Beauchamp and not the other way round, since Deschamps is used earlier.

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Thanks so much for finding that, Julien. I find it so hard to read the old docs. I cannot make out the spelling for Michel's surname.

Can you figure out who is the Guillaume mentioned?

Per the info in this thread, I changed some of the surnames from the "dit" combination to what different posters reported.

Isabelle cited sources for the following...

- 1583 & 1584 for parents Marc Deschamps & Marguerite

- 1630 for Olivier Deschamps & Julienne Baret

- 1720 for Louis Deschamps and Julienne Chevillard

quote> There appear to be other issues with this Beauchamp lineage

Please let the Profile Managers know if anything else needs to be adjusted. Thanks

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Earlier someone had said that the "Deschamps, alias Beauchamp" was disproven or unproven. However Julien has now pointed out that Michel does have records with BOTH surname versions. So I have noted that on his profile ...

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Beauchamp-556

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we don't use the form ''xyz dit abc'' in LNAB, it's one or the other, dit names get treated separately, either as current last name or as other last name.

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interesting, there are 2 weddings in the same record, which I see once in a while in that area.

N., Guillaume is one of the named witnesses of the marriage, he signs at bottom.

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Marc Deschamps and Marguerite were not the parents of Jean, so they need disconnected (they did have a son Jean but they lived in the wrong place).

Olivier Deschamps and Julienne Baret were not the parents of Marc, so they need disconnected

Louis Deschamps and Julienne Chevillard were not the parents of Olivier, so they need disconnected...

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have disconnected Jean from Marc and Marguerite Collineau de Montaguerre, with notes on all profiles to this effect.

The other profiles in this chain need more work, manager for some of them appears inactive.

Answer 9

Hi guys

Other than many profiles built withholding identifying/checking the boxes for biological/certain relationship status options I CANT find my ancestors through the standard pull down menu for finding connections.  They might be on the list but only showing not connected .   This happens so often and I’ve asked for help but not getting heard.   

Beauchamp-567 For example is my eighth grandmother and she doesn’t show as a match between myself and another user I’m trying to work with to find information on about closer relationships.  The current info for my closer gr grandmother definitely has questionable surnames that don’t align with DNA matches and therefore it’s important to be able to know surnames established. This Beauchamp-567 like others is a must for me to find out what is keeping me unconnected and what can I do to fix these issues?

Comments

Hi Doris, the "My Connections" in the pull-down menu is a list of WikiTree profiles within 7 degrees of you (a "degree" is like one relationship step and includes connections through spouses, see Help:Connection_Counts). Beauchamp-567 is a fairly distant ancestor and is 10 degrees from you, so she won't appear on the My Connections page.

To view your ancestors, you can click the green "Ancestors" button from your profile page. Or you can check out the Ancestor Explorer app, or look in the "Tree Apps" tab from your profile page.

To view your relationship to any WikiTree profile, from their profile, hover over their WikiTree ID in the pulldown menu and select "Relationship to Me". Or, to view your connection to the person, select "Connection to Me". To find the relationship between Beauchamp-567 and the other user, you can enter their WikiTree IDs in the Relationship Finder.