Question

Could we please correct problematic Ojibwe categories?

I'm finding two pages of Ojibwe categories...  

:https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Ojibway

:https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Ojibwe

...and neither are useful for my ancestors.  

First, White Earth Nation is a consolidation of several bands of Ojibwe.  It is not a band of Ojibwe; it is a sovereign nation.  You can see the consolidation of bands of Ojibwe at White Earth on the documentation of the people there.  For example:  

:Sah gutch e way ge shig e quay discovered in U.S., Indian Census Rolls, 1885-1940 - https://www.ancestry.com/sharing/23821212?h=a77fad via @Ancestry

That roll shows Leech Lake Pillagers at White Earth Agency.  They are Leech Lake Pillagers.  On page 3 of that roll, you will find Pembina Chippewa at White Earth Agency.  On page 4 of that roll, you will find Mille Lacs Mississippi Chippewa at White Earth Agency.

My own Snake River, Yellow River, and La Pointe Ojibwe ancestors before removal do not fit into the created categories.  Some of the later generations, who were removed, were lumped in with Mille Lacs Removal at White Earth and others ended up on Lac Courte Oreilles, Fond du Lac, and Leech Lake or moved from one reservation to another.  Those who were enrolled at White Earth could be appropriately categorized under White Earth Nation, but not under White Earth band of Ojibwe/Chippewa because that was not their band because White Earth was not a band but a consolidation of bands.

Trying to categorize all American Indians under today's federally-recognized sovereign nations doesn't work for Indians who died before removal.  And likewise, trying to categorize today's Indians under historical bands doesn't always work because many may have never lived in an historical band and take great pride in their enrollment in a sovereign nation such as White Earth Nation.  

For American Indian categories to work, both historical bands and today's communities/nations should be offered as categories.

For today's communities/nations, we should use the name the particular nation uses on their web-site.  It is often similar to the legal, federally-recognized name.  For historical bands, we should consult scholarly sources.

Here is a starting point for gathering together the many bands and nations of Ojibwe:  https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Space:Ojibwe_(Anishinaabe)_aka_Chippewa&public=1

One more question - Why does the category heading for one of the two pages use the spelling Ojibwe and the categories on that page use the spelling Ojibwa?  Ojibwe and Ojibway are common spellings, but I checked the web sites of the seven recognized communities/nations of Minnesota, and I easily found the word Ojibwe on six of the sites using the spelling Ojibwe.  Why was Ojibwa chosen?

Comments

I now see where one may have pulled the word band when referring to White Earth since the BIA's list uses band when describing the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe.  However if one reads the constitution of the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe, it reads:  

"We, the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe, consisting of the Chippewa Indians of the White Earth, Leech Lake, Fond du Lac, Bois Forte (Nett Lake), and Grand Portage Reservations and the Nonremoval Mille Lac Band of Chippewa Indians, in order to form a representative Chippewa tribal organization, maintain and establish justice for our Tribe, and to conserve and develop our tribal resources and common property; to promote the general welfare of ourselves and descendants, do establish and adopt this constitution for the Chippewa Indians of Minnesota in accordance with such privilege granted the Indians by the United States under existing law."

The constitution indicates the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe is comprised of RESERVATIONS and one band - the Nonremoval Mille Lacs.

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Speaking as a categories person, and only as relates to the Ojibwe/Ojibway duplication, "Ojibwe" is preferred. We'd love not to have the duplicate, but it's been impossible to achieve. Some users will use one spelling and others the other.

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It is not simply the duplicate page that is a problem; the categories on this page are problematic.  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Ojibwe

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SD, what should the correct sub categorization look like?

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and that all supports not creating categories until they are actually needed.  When that list was created it was correct, but names have changed.  The current BIA listing says "Minnesota Chippewa Tribe" is the name, and then in parentheses (Six component reservations: Bois Forte Band (Nett Lake); Fond du Lac Band; Grand Portage Band; Leech Lake Band; Mille Lacs Band; White Earth Band).  The tribal page says "The Minnesota Chippewa Tribe, comprised of the Bois Forte, Fond du Lac, Grand Portage, Leech Lake, Mille Lacs, and White Earth reservations, is a federally recognized tribal government that, through unified leadership, promotes and protects the member Bands ... "   "Reservations" is not capitalized, "Bands" is; the tribe itself uses the term Bands.

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Jillaine - I linked a page in my question.  It is the same information I started about a year ago and shared with you then, and I recently expanded it.  It is not a final product, but it is information that should be considered when creating categories.

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Kathie - understanding the history of the Ojibwe in Minnesota can help in understanding.  If you review the annuity/census roll I linked, you will see that White Earth is a consolidation of bands.  White Earth was established in 1867, and the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe was not established until 1934.  In the formation of the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe, none of the reservation gave up their individual sovereignty.  The quote is a direct quote from the constitution, and "Reservations" is indeed capitalized.  The language was intentional.  White Earth, Leech Lake, Fond du Lac, Bois Forte (Nett Lake), and Grand Portage are named as reservations, and Nonremoval Mille Lac are named as a band.  My ancestors who were born into a clan in a particular band did not change their band when they were removed to White Earth.  White Earth is a consolidation of bands on a reservation.  My ancestors who were born in the 1830s and 40s were part of a particular band with whom they identified.  They were removed to White Earth and became citizens of that reservation (a sovereign nation); they did not change their identity.  They died before the Minnesota Chippewa Tribe was established.

Kathie, the list was never correct.  Pulling language off the BIA site gives one an idea of the communities/nations today, but it provides no history.  Ojibwe people know who they are; Ojibwe do not need disconnected people to tell us who we are.

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S.D., so you think we need categories and sub categories for each and every one of those? I wonder if instead we start with the overarching category headers you provide on that page, and only expand out the individual Bands if/when we have profiles for them.

One thing to know is that the categorization project at wikitree typically requires that any category has at least one profile or freespace page associated with it before creating it. (I.e., they don't want empty categories). I'm trying to negotiate exceptions.

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Jillaine, I can see that not every sub-band may have a profile yet, but I think creating categories for the larger bands and listing the sub-bands of that band on the category page can help people place profiles in the right place.  (For example, "This band includes sub-band A, sub-band B, and sub-band C.") Sometimes people know the sub-band of their people but may not know the larger band to place them under.  

One more thing to understand, the Ojibwe are the most numerous people of the U.S. tribes.  It is understandable that they may have more categories than some other tribes.

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I agree with you Kathy, SD how are they the most numerous? What's the total number of citizens? Last I checked the Cherokee were the largest tribe in the US, and they have 3 bands, EBCI, CN, and UKB, between them there are almost 3/4 million registered Citizens. Which also includes pending. The problems with categories is that backing that up with actual factual historical data can become very hard. And it's bad enough right now the numbers of people who falsely and wrongfully claim to be Native when they are not. Then use that to make a fake tribe to gain backing and status as well as to take Advantage. Proof is in the actual documentation and not just in stories. IMHO

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I don't think that population size makes any difference in the discussion of categories, but in the United States there are almost 400,000 Cherokee citizens in the three tribes, there are about 300,000 Navajo, and about 60,000 Ojibwe.  Far more Ojibwe live in Canada than in the U.S., about 160,000.  I don't know if they are the largest group in Canada.

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Angi, Kathie - I mentioned the numbers to Jillaine only in the context that the Ojibwe may need quite a few categories.  Ojibwe lived over a huge area of what became the U.S. and Canada and were indeed - at least at one time - the most populous.  The statement about numbers was only for understanding of why the Ojibwe may need quite a few categories.  See:  https://www.mnhs.org/fortsnelling/learn/native-americans/ojibwe-people?gclid=Cj0KCQjwse-DBhC7ARIsAI8YcWK0PhxrpMNNIO2w1Eab53c3vp8SrRnTyMY8qMOkMql6obi5mtEIZZgaAuXAEALw_wcB  It is not a competition.

Answer 1

The entire categorization for the Native Americans project is currently undergoing review.  We are aware of duplicate and misspelled categories and space / project pages.

Unfortunately the project Leader had to resign for unrelated reasons. But there is a team of volunteers who are trying to make progress on this.