George "the Crowner" Gunn merge- what to do with supposed parents?

Question

I have been working on the profile for George "the Crowner" Gunn (abt. 1405 - aft. 1464) Gunn-875 .

The modern lineage and Sept Families of Clan Gunn rise from him.  

I cleaned up some "Data Doctor" problems, and added information about his sons.

There is another profile for George "The Crowner of Caithness" Gunne (1405 - 1464) Gunne-43,

who is clearly supposed to be the same person (though unsourced and with an empty biography).

This was recently "orphaned", and I have adopted it, and intend to merge it.

(Both "Gunn" and "Gunne" are probably wrong, as it was spelled "Gun" until that word came to mean "firearm" in common usage.

Sir Robert Gordon ("A Genealogical History of the Earldom of Sutherland", 1630) consistently uses "Gun",

but Thomas Sinclair ("The Gunns", 1890) uses "Gunn".)

My question relates to the purported ancestors of Gunne-43 on Wikitree (all from an unsourced GEDCOM).

Harald Olafsson  1050 - Scotland

4 generations

Snaekoll Gunnisson  1200 - 1250 Caithness, Stirlingshire (???), Scotland

Ottar Gunne     1220    

Ingram Gunne    1285 - 1340 Clyth Ulbster, Caithness, Scotland

Donald Gunne 1325 - Halberry Castle, Caithness, Scotland

James Gunne     1360 - Halberry Castle, Stirlingshire (???), Scotland

All the reliable sources I have found say that the direct ancestry of the Crowner is unknown

(though some say he is the 7th Chief).

One source

[https://books.google.com/books?id=hWtVAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=george+gunn+the+coroner&source=bl&ots=Hq4wjjanIl&sig=CdKx_OmLVdwO5UFZneL8qmcSLrw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBGoVChMIgtvbm4-SxwIVjTqICh3WpQlz#v=onepage&q=george%20gunn%20the%20coroner&f=false  Family History Compiled by Lucy Henderson Horton pg 202]

gives a somewhat different ancestry for the Crowner (which matches for 3 generations, but without dates)

Snae Koll Gunnison

Son of Snae Koll

James de Gunn

Ingram de Gunn

Sir Donald Gunn

Sir James Gunn

So what should I do with the merge?

Should I bring along the GEDCOM ancestors, marking each parent as "uncertain"?  

Or should I disconnect George Gunne (Gunne-43) from his purported parents before merging?

Answer 1

It looks like it was brought up almost seven years ago about the two profiles being probable duplicates.

Without a reliable source, I would detach the parents (with a note and link to profiles in the bio).  but I'll defer to the Scotland Project to decide...

Comments

I agree.

Answer 2

I am a descendant of George Gunn 1380-1464. He was a Coroner, the English mispronounced Coroner and it became Crowner. He is a descendent of Gunni Olafsson 1112-? Son of Olafr Hrolfson 1075-1136. This information comes from Geni and Wikitree. I am fully YDNA tested and have several Gunn matches on FTDNA that have the same terminal haplogroup. Willing to share all my info, I have a FTM Gunn tree with 36,000+ Gunns and relatives.

Comments

There are many proposals for the ancestry of "George the Crowner", but none of them provide reliable justification.

Sources on Geni, or on WikTree itself, are not considered "reliable".

But I would be very interested in finding out how we are related.

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I'm not sure you would accept my information. It comes from 'unreliable' sources. George Battiscomb Gunn 1883 Durham, England is my 10th cousin 2x removed.

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Well, Battiscombe George Gunn (born 1883 in London) is my grandfather, but I do no know of a "George Battiscomb Gunn".

Who is your common ancestor?

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Well I guess you better get ahold of the census folks from 1891, 1901 and 1911 and tell them as they have him listed as George Gunn.

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George Gunn (Gunn-1685) is his father, born 1854 in Dorset.  His census records are on the profile.

Battiscombe's profile is Gunn-1707, and his census records are on his profile.

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James Gunn and Elizabeth Swainston is George B Gunn's mother and father. I just told you about 3 RELIABLE sources for G B Gunn and you refer me back to information you say is unreliable.

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OK, obviously a different person.

A- can you give me a link to the cnesus records?

B - How is he related to me?

C - Is he on WikiTree?

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Census records came from Ancestry. You said you were the grand daughter of Battiscomb George Gunn b 1883 England. I have a George Battiscomb Gunn b 1883 England, I don't know if you are related. You're the expert on Wikitree, look for him.

Answer 3

If you have not already completed the merge, my advice would be to take the profile for Gunn and merge Gunne into it having detached him from his parents before merging into the new Gunn-875. I agree it should probably be Gun rather than Gunn. I have been working this week on lots of early Latheron OPRs and Wick OPRs and overwhelmingly in the early 1700s the entries have the surname as "Gun" with one "n".

I have had a look at my original copy of Sir Robert Gordon's book. Although he sometimes wrote total fiction, the bottom line is he lived only 3-4 generations after George Gun died.

I would link the family in accordance with Robert Gordon narrates and make clear either in the biography or a suitable research note repeated on each profile that you have followed the line according to Gordonstoun and invite anyone with proof to the contrary to share it.

I have a personal interest from the standpoint that I am direct descendant of William Sutherland of Langwell who was murdered by Robert Gun of Braemore so Robert could kidnap William's wife and infant son and then forcibly marry William's widow by whom he then had 4 sons. Halberry Castle which lies just south of the Latheron-Wick parish border out on the sea cliffs is adjacent to where the Sutherlands of Clyth and Sutherlands of Blackness have lived ever since.

Comments

Yes, they have already been merged, without parents.

Now that I have a second person agreeing with "Gun" as the LNAB, I will make that change.

I DO have a reprint of Robert Gordon's book, so I will add that to the sources.