What is your AUSTRALIAN brick wall?

Question

We all have one, it might be an ancestor with a murky past, or maybe a great-great uncle who disappears off the face of the earth. Well, you no longer need to suffer alone!

First, some rules and guidelines, because I can be officious like that sometimes.

SOME RULES

• The person in question doesn't have to have been born in Australia, but you're hoping the key to the mystery can be found in Australia
• The person needs to have a profile on wikitree, or if you really only have a name, their child should have a profile
• Post your brick wall as an answer to this post
• You must spend at least ten minutes helping at least one other person work on their brick wall

As the convenor(?) of this post I will attempt to spend time on each brick wall. Anything for a break from bashing my head against my own brick wall. Don't necessarily expect a quick response though.

SOME GUIDELINES

• The better you describe your research completed to date, the more effective people's help will be. Here's an imperfect example
• Relevant birth/marriage/death certificates should be attached to the profile OR a transcription provided
• It's OK to direct help, for example "I'd really like help with the marriage witnesses"
• Help can involve advice, not just searching, for example "Have you considered the surname could have been anglicised?", "The State Library has some relevant off line resources"
• If you help, but get a null result that's still useful information, for example "I looked through the Bicentennial Dictionary of Western Australians for Smith and Smythe and found no likely entries"

ONE OTHER THING
Have you solved an Australian brick wall in the past? Was there a false assumption that was holding you back from solving it sooner? Post in the comments to this post what it was. Do you feel you did something particularly clever to solve the brick wall? Post that to the comments as well.

Comments

As an example of a false assumption, I have an ancestor who was born in Brisbane but her birth was not registered, and her parents not stated on her marriage or death certificate.

She was married Protestant, buried Baptist and so when I was approaching all the various churches about their baptism registers I didn't get in touch with the Catholics.

It wasn't until I'd solved the brick wall through DNA and discovered her parents had married Catholic that I approached the Catholic Church in Brisbane and found her baptism record. Could have saved a lot of time and some money by going there earlier.

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Great idea Mark!  Have you considered joining the Australia Project? https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Australia 

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This is a great idea though Mark. But, Wikitree is set up really well for this kind of thing. A number of times when I've hit brick walls, I've linked the profile to a G2G question. Most of the time the profiles have remained a brick wall, but the questions remain up, and can be found in a Google search in the future, if other people come along working on the same tree, whether here or on another family tree site.

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My brick wall though my mother had been bashing at it for 35 years before she passed. 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Glynn-633

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Hi Kylie

You should really post your comment as an answer so any replies will be on their own thread.

In the meantime, I'm not sure why you list John's residence in 1841 as Kempsey? The 1841 Census only named heads of household and he was only four at the time.

If his father did head a household, it was likely the household in Castlereagh, which abuts the Nepean River. There was a male child of the right age to be John in the household. Refer here and here. Unfortunately it doesn't record the householders first name. It does suggest he had two brothers though.

There are three birth with the surname Glyne in the period 1835-1845 in NSW. I would be ordering transcriptions from http://nswtranscriptions.com.au/ and see if they might be around Castlereagh.

There are a not insurmountable number of Glynn deaths up to 1860 and some certificate fishing might be in order there.

You might also like to search on McGlynn for birth and death records.

Answer 1

Rosina Goodwin died 1917 Sydney NSW Aust

Comments

Hi Jenni

Rosina doesn't appear to have a profile on wikitree and there is no Rosina Goodwin in the NSW death index at https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au/lifelink/familyhistory/search/

Can you please provide more information and create a profile?

Thanks

Mark

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There is a "Rose", and a "Robina" (would need to see the original record to know if someone transcribed a badly written s as a b), but both registrations are for 1918, not 1917, and neither is in Sydney.

GOODWIN ROBINA A

3289/1918

JOHN

ELIZABETH

GUNNEDAH

 

GOODWIN ROSE C

5431/1918

THOMAS

MARY

ROCKDALE

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What information demonstrates she died in 1917, and in Sydney? Was she married?

So I take it, '''Birth''', NSW BDM 30940/1912 in 1912, GOODWIN Rosina, (F)Thomas, (M)Alexandress, Birth at West Maitland. is the person you are looking for?

Answer 2

This post is a duplicate of https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1062332/what-is-your-australian-brick-wall

Answer 3

My Australian brick wall is the first Laidlaw in my line to come to Australia.  His Australian history is known, so he probably doesn't qualify.  I have provisionally identified him with an immigrant on the "Blue Jacket," but he came alone, and I need to find his parents.

Comments

Are you referring to this man? https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Laidlaw-619 
Have you obtained a copy of his marriage record?

This is the only baptism record I can find at Scotland's People in Roxburgh around this time for a William Laidlaw in the Church of Scotland.

LAIDLAW

WILLIAM

WILLIAM LAIDLAW/ISABELLA THOMSON FR1118 (FR1118)

M

03/08/1843

810/

60 105

Wilton

These are from other churches:

LAIDLAW	WILLIAM	WILLIAM LAIDLAW/CHRISTIAN SCOTT	6 JUNE 1843	16 JUNE 1844	HAWICK FREE	View image (6 credits)
LAIDLAW	WILLIAM	WILLIAM LAIDLAW/ELIZABETH MIDDLEMAS	7 JUNE 1849	8 JULY 1849	HAWICK FREE

 

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Some of the info was chopped off. The bottom two baptisms are at Hawick Free Church. The top one is at Wilton.

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Thanks, Leandra.  Yes, that is the man, but he was unmarried when he arrived.  According to the passenger list, he was one of a club of 20-year-olds; on my data, he would have been 22.  He maaried in Melbourne in 1870.  His marriage registration pretty well matches the family story, birth in the Hawick area, parents match.  He died in the Moorabbin "asylum," a nursing home really.  His death registration says he came from Thomastown, Scotland; the early family came from that county.  I now have a DNA match with another line of Laidlaws with a common ancestor to mine (McGeachins.)  If the match I had before is not discarded, the tree agrees with the DNA, otherwise, it is broken at that point.

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I think this definitely fits in this category. You have his parents names, place and location of birth and yet you still can't find him in the baptism records. The only way you're going to find more information is within Australia.

I can see his parents in the death index as William Laidlaw and Mary Newhall - does this match the details in the marriage certificate? Who were the marriage witnesses?

Do you have a photo of his headstone? Are there any others buried in the same plot?

Where did William live and what was his profession?

He could well have a sibling or cousin that came out too. There are no other records in the death index with the same parents, and the handful that listed mother unknown and father William are very unlikely or impossible based on the year of birth, but the father could be not recorded or incorrect.

Looking into to other Laidlaws that lived nearby or had the same profession could be useful, although it appears he lived in Melbourne through his life so nearby would be very broad.

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Thanks, Mark.  Rather than piecemeal replies, I will put all the info I have in a Research Note - maybe a space would be better.  If he came out alone, and died alone in the Moorabbin "asylum" (the informant on his death certificate was the Manager,) he may be difficult to trace.  He had two sons; they are all the issue I am aware of.  A descendant of the other son has been in touch with me.  His application to emigrate would be the natural next step, but I don't know if it is available.

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I did a tree for some friends. They had a McBurnie line in the western district of Victoria. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/McBurnie-38 's mother was a Laidlaw. It would be interesting if you found that he came out on the same ship or something.

If you click on view his descendants, Laidlaw is a middlename used several generations later.

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I will check that out. There are certainly possible links. The Laidlaws of the Western District came from Selkirk, but the mother is from Dumfries and died in Barwon, which probably includes Geelong, where I grew up.  Camperdown is in between.  There are others.  A farmer in S.A. picked up from a shipwreck a silver pistol intended for the opening of a function (the Federal Council of Australasia?)  in Melbourne.  His widow deposited the pistol at the Geelong Museum.  I traced his descendants to Mildura.

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Interesting. Dumfries too. The McBurnie's were at Barwon, and ended up at Mildura. Just look out for the McBurnie name when you go through sources. I can't find the ship they came out on, but it may turn out to be the same one.

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I did a search of shipping passenger lists with nil result.

According to a source on Ancestry.com, there is a Clan McBurnie history, "The McBurnie Clan" written by Clarrie McBurnie.  I have an old copy of the "Australian Family Histories" CD, which mentions it. It is copy-protected. The excerpt says that Christopher arrived in Victoria in 1854 on the ship "Robert Henry."  I must search again.  Marion migrated in 1853 on the ship "Priscilla." ("Surgeon Harris' " new wife travelled to Sydney separately on a ship of women; maybe it was the usual thing).  They met and married in Bacchus Marsh.

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The reference on the CD only says that the surname occurs in two family histories.  One is in South Australia.  The other is a Nathalia family and he was buried at Nathalia.  He died at Picola, N.W. of Shepparton, reasonably close to Nathalia, but his death cert says the Barwon Registration District.

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I can find no mention of the ship "Robert Harry" anywhere.  According to a note on Ancestry.com, 3 brothers came out together.  It might be worth investigating the other two; maybe their travel details are more accurate.  Since the complete family is on at least two other trees, I will go back to keeping a look-out.

Answer 4

Hi mark,

Excellent initiative. One of my Australian brick walls is the life/death of Margaret Maher (nee Whelan) after the death of her husband. She seems to just disappear. Some of the research is on her page, but essentially I can't find any trace - not death record, no newspaper mentions, etc. I've explored possible remarriages (as outlined on her page) but none seems to fit her.

Cheers, David

Comments

Have you obtained a copy of the marriage record for her son? Sometimes they indicate when a parent is deceased. It may have a new marriage surname for her, or a witness may lead you to her.

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Have you been able to rule out the Margaret Maher who died in Tatura in 1905 aged 87? No parents are listed and the age is not too far out. 14468 / 1905

I'm unable to find a death notice for her.

Also, with the possible marriages, you've been able to eliminate a few possibilities. With the others listed, have you tried looking for children to the couple? That will list the mother's maiden name, or for the later marriages any children at all will be a sign it's not her.

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Thanks Leandra - and yes, I do have a copy of her son's marriage record. It does mention her maiden name (Margaret Whelan), but no other details unfortunately.

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Thanks Mark. The Margaret Maher in Tatura was Margaret Ryan, who married a John Maher and arrived in Victoria in 1854 (along with her husband and an infant). She went on to have 6 more children and her husband, a blacksmith, died in Tatura in 1883. Unfortunately not my "Margaret Maher"!

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So she wasn't buried with any family anywhere?

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Ben - no unfortunately not. She only had one son (Michael), and she doesn't appear to be buried in any of towns that Michael lived (though he did move quite a few times).

Answer 5

Joseph Parker https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Parker-34778. I am looking for death and burial.

Born c 1854 in Adelaide, probably in the Nailsworth/Prospect area. Birth not registered. Not mentioned in his father's bible either. He is possibly included in the bible as Enoch, as Enoch was born 1854 and no other record of him has been found. Notified his father's death in 1874. Owned land with his mother for a short time. His widow and children have been documented in various places in association with Joseph's brother Charles & his family, so although the evidence in primary records is lacking, there obviously is a relationship between these people. A newspaper article about Charles' daughter's wedding in 1907 referred to Joseph's wife as the bride's aunt, and to Joseph's son as the bride's cousin.

Joseph was alive and living at Maylands, SA, when his son Edward married on 11 Jan 1907. He was deceased when son William married on 25 Aug 1909. I cannot find a death or burial for him. Refer to profile for the records I've searched. His widow died in 1926 and is buried at Payneham Cemetery. I have contacted the cemetery and they have no record of him.

Comments

Leandra, I wondered if it might be worthwhile looking more broadly. Your notes indicate that Joseph was deceased by the time of his son William's marriage in 1909, but the indication that he was still alive in 1907 is the newspaper mention re his son Edward's wedding. I wonder if that latter aspect could be wrong and Joseph was already deceased? I search earlier than 1907 but couldn't find anything however.

I also had a look for any emigration records between 1907 and 1909 to see if he might have left and then died elsewhere, but no success there either.

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I have searched more broadly. The likely time of death has been narrowed down as I uncovered more information. Thank you for searching.

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Hi Leandra

That's fine thorough work you've done there!

Regarding Edward's marriage in 1907, do you have the certificate and did that also suggest Joseph was alive? The newspaper could have made an error.

I looked at all Josephs in the death index for 1907 to 1909 and none had a surname that looked like a possible mistranscription of Parker.

I tried search Trove, family notices in SA for 1900-1909 on common OCR errors for Parker - I tried paiker, parkcr, parken, pcrker, parkei, paikcr. I also looked for In Memoriam notices for Joseph Parker in the following decade and did not find any relevant items.

I search findagrave, billiongraves and austcemindex for Joseph Parkers in the period 1907-1909 and found no entries.

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Edward's marriage record doesn't state that either father is deceased. They were not required to record that, but sometimes it is included as bonus information.

I'm impressed with your search criteria! Thank you.

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Joseph surely died outside of South Australia? It's got to be significant he isn't buried with his wife.

And unlike births, it's pretty hard to get away without registering a death. And if he went missing that would surely make the news.

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If the couple died in different places they may not be buried together. People of low income tended not to be carted great distances to be buried with their predeceased spouse. I have found numerous people who lived in what is now the northern suburbs of Adelaide, or rural South Australia, who died in the Adelaide Hospital and were buried at West Terrace. Their bodies were not taken back to the cemetery near their homes, where other family members are buried.

I have a 2g-grandmother who died in 1908 and her death is not registered, even though she owned property. I also have a 2g-grandfather who died in 1922 with the surname Lane but the death was registered as Lee, and he also owned property. Someone was allowed to sell these properties without producing a death certificate. You wouldn't be able to do that now.

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I guess I'm showing my deep middle class roots with my hypothesis there.

Very interesting the missing death certificate for your 2g-grandmother. Was the property sold soon after her death? Last year I read in the news to my surprise that in NSW, if you can show that you've maintained a property and paid rates for X number of years you can claim it as yours even without living in it, and even with no connection to the previous owner.

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Yes it was part of her estate and the proceeds were divided between her children.

Answer 6

My most recent one is Walter John Henry Barclay

Born in Victoria 1893 near Ballarat, signed up to become a Munitions Worker in UK during WW1. Married over there & had a child.

Last record I can spot of him ( family, wife Gertrude & daughter Iris) is arriving back in Sydney from UK on the "Rugia" in Jul 1919.

He gets a mention in his father's death notice in 1948 (died Bendigo), so still living then ... but where did he go? Checked NSW, VIC & QLD BDM & ryerson index.

Comments

Is this him in South Australia?
 

Surname: BARCLAY

First Names: Walter John

Death Date: 26-Jul-1969

Age: 76

Gender: M

Marital Status: M

Place of Death: Magill

Residence: Kensington

Relative: Gertrude Eleanor BARCLAY [W]

District: Norwood

Book/Page: 72A/5286

Notes: Symbol=H.

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Bingo! Thanks Leandra Ford, obviously didn't search far enough. That will give me a place to start looking for him on TROVE etc.

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I did not see a death for Gertrude in SA. Walter was cremated at Centennial Park. https://www.centennialpark.org/memorial-search/walter-john-barclay-117580/
If you can check the newspaper for a funeral notice, some of the funeral directors who were in business then are still operating, and they may provide some more information about what happened to his ashes. The staff at Centennial Park have been helpful in the past too. They might tell you whether the ashes went back to the funeral director or remained there uncollected.

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Western Australia is the state I usually neglect to search. Who would go there? Right!! Well, a couple of people surprisingly.

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Agreed Ben. My recent research has found early settlers, especially of South Australia, were in a prime position when land opened up in Western Australia (mid 1800s).Also there were ships conducting regular voyages between Melbourne & Perth at the time.

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There was gold in WA. A lot of people in the other states went west.

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The great part about the WA Index, is the search years aren't as restrictive. I'd have to look it up, but I think you can get births from about 1940.

Answer 7

My father passed on to me what he was told of his mother's family. Going back further in this family than what has already been passed on to me from family memory is unlikely as there were scant written records for Aboriginal Australians in the area of new South Wales that my family occupied before 1908.

Not finding records in that family line is something I expected. Not finding records for the father's maternal grandfather surprised (and still surprises) me.

What my father told me (often so I would remember it) about the man who raised him went like this:

"My Grandfather Martin was born in Glasgow but his family didn't live there. He would often tell me that he was a Thomas Martin, his father was a Thomas Martin and he had a son who was Thomas Martin. He was a firm but fair man who worked for Mr Theo Hooke. When he would be doing things that needed us boys he would say  about our help that ' one boy and you have got a boy. Two boys and you have half a boy and three boys and you might as well have no boys at all. "

My father's face when he spoke of his grandfather showed the love and respect with which he held him all his life. I noticed that apart from these few snippets about his grandfather's family background there was nothing. Dad did not pass on to me who his grandfather's parents were or whether he had siblings. He did tell me there were unconfirmed stories that circulated in the family.

There was a story that either Grandfather Thomas Martin or his father was a member of the Coldstream Guards. A belt that was suppose to be part of the uniform was handed down in my Great Uncle Sydney Martin's family and as far as I know is still in the possession of his wife, my Aunty Bet. I have never taken a photo of the buckle etc to see if that provides a hint and know I probably should sooner rather than later (not likely with COVID)

One story was that Grandfather Martin changed his name. My dad often said he could not imagine that was true because of his Grandfathers attitude to lies. He said his grandfather was a very godly man and doing the wrong thing was inexcusable.

Another story had him coming to Australia to a location somewhere south of Gloucester NSW as a young child with his parents and family.

I was surprised when I obtained a copy of Thomas Martins death certificate to see it listed his parents. That information had to have come from outside of our Martin family (his long time employer and friend Theo Hooke was still alive then I am led to believe so it may have come from him).

Another story was that Thomas's son Thomas (known as Tim) fell in love with a girl from the 'south coast' and wanted to marry her and that his father said he could not because she was his first cousin. The implication later that he must have changed his name came from this story because her name was not Martin. Not sure if those who came to that conclusion  even considered that if she was a child of his sister then it would be unlikely that the surname she carried would be a hint that she was a Martin relative.  

I has always amazed me that a relative who has left clear photographic evidence, oral stories, newspaper articles and written records in Australia that lead to a country where records have been collected for a very long time provides a brickwall to my research.

So yes my brickwall is  Martin-58808.

Comments

Sorry, I'm not clear on the nature of your brickwall. Are you trying to find the birth for Thomas Martin? Have you obtain a copy of his marriage record? It is likely to have more accurate birth details than you will find on his death record. I cannot find him in the 1871 census matching any of the information you have in his profile.

Re: Your Indigenous family, have you checked books about the Indigenous people in the relevant area at your State Library? Some contain family trees or may provide other useful information.

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Yes I am trying to find Thomas Martins birth certificate so I can place him in his family of origin. I only know about his family of procreation.

I have accessed his Marriage entry in the Gloucester Court house when I began my records search decades ago. It gave me birth details contrary to what my father and other members of the family had told me.

I have a copy and just rechecked it since it has been a long time

It lists his birth place as unknown NSW and says he was 45 and his parents Thomas Martin and Katharine  G/Quire were both dead

Re: My Aboriginal family - yes devoted family researchers have checked many many state records and accounts of early pioneers over the decades since we started working on putting down on paper what we all knew. It is a work in progress and it is an extensive database file (even if it currently sits in at least a half a dozen different peoples files)

Answer 8

My Australian Brick wall is Elizabeth Bateman (or Kennedy), she married James Murphy in 1844 at Windsor.  I believe I found her coming to Australia with a Kennedy family in 1841, but perhaps it is all wrong as I have been unable to get back any further on her line so perhaps am looking in the wrong place even after extensive DNA analysis! https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bateman-669

If anyone has any more ideas I would love to hear them!

Comments

This is a doozy, that's for sure. It's a real shame the Catholic marriage records from that period in NSW don't include spinster/widowed status, or that's been my limited experience anyway.

You've sure done some thorough research, and I'm at a bit of a loss for suggestions.

Have you looked into the marriage witness John Rafter at all? It might well be though that the only connection there is that he was a prominent middle class Catholic in 1840s Windsor.

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Many years ago I looked into John Rafter but I can't remember now what I found?  I'm pretty sure I didn't find a connection, but I must look into again as there are many more records available these days!  Thanks for taking a look!

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Marriage witnesses are top of mind for me right now after revisiting a marriage witness sent me on a whole new search trajectory and solved a 40 year brick wall just this week.

I'm not that old, I inherited the brick wall from a cousin.

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I checked out John Rafter again.  More info than I recall finding before.  One was a convict who came here after they married, so thats not him.  The other more likely is one from Tipperary is probably the one you were looking at, can't see an obvious connection - yet!  I'll add the profiles to wikitree soon!  Thanks for making me look at all this again!

Answer 9

A great great uncle, George Herbert Thomas, has left no trace of his life or death; and what the family knew was very little.  It appears that he never married and never left Australia. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Thomas-30142

Comments

Hi Kenneth

The family lore that gives you December 1965 as a death date, is it based on an oral history that he lived to 99 and a half? Or is it from an unsourced tree someone else prepared and you don't really know how it's derived?

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Yes, Mark. The story I heard was that he died at 99 and a half years of age.

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Is there literally no other information? Have you spoken to people that knew him, or is the information about his age another degree removed?

If they knew him, did you get the impression he lived in Brisbane?

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He would have lived around Brisbane as a young man.  His siblings and nephews apparently never spoke of him; for what reason is not known. Of course, they're all gone now.

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Are you able to rule out the Herbert George Thomas who died in Brisbane on 23 December 1965? 1965/B/78040

His parents are completely incorrect of course, but it wouldn't be the first time ever for a death record.

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Thanks, Mark. That Herbert George Thomas was born 1887 to those parents (1887/C/3979).

Answer 10

I am trying to crack the mystery of Walter Todman. I've had a lot of problems with his father but I think I've finally broken down that brick wall and am in the process of writing it up for inclusion on his profile. But his son Walter remains a big mystery. Here's what I know:-

Walter Todman was born 25 October 1890 in Newtown, New South Wales, Australia to Walter Todman, Blacksmith aged 25 & Jane, aged 31 [I]

Transcription of Birth Certificate

Child - Todman, Walter, male, Date of birth 25th October 1890, Place of birth 9 Bailey Street, Newtown

Parents of Child

Father - Walter Todman, Blacksmith 25 years, place of birth Norfolk, England

Mother - Surname Levey, Maiden Surname Levey, other names Jane, Age 31 years, Place of birth London, England

Date - Place and previous children of marriage - [left blank]

Informant - Jane Levey and Walter Todman, Mother and father, 9 Bailey Street, Newtown

Registered - 4th December 1890

I don't think his parents were married, but it appears that both were present at the time of his birth registration. Although I know a lot about his father as he is my direct ancestor I know almost nothing about his eldest son and his eldest son's mother Jane Levey I would love to know what became of them.

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[I] Birth Certificate for Walter Todman, son of Walter Todman & Jane Levey  NSW, born 1890 Newtown, New South Wales, Australia;  NSW, Australia Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages Registry of Births Deaths and Marriages, Registration# 26005/1890.  

Comments

I first thought to test if Jane married and Walter took on the new husband's name but the only marriage I could find was in 1905 in Sydney, so this didn't seem likely.

Walter could well have used the surname Levey if he felt his father abandoned them.

He's of an age that he could have served in WWI, but searches on Walter Levey, Walter Levy and Walter Todman didn't turn up anything in the National Archives.

I'll let this turn over in my subconscious for a while I think.

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Thank Mark I'm pretty sure that Jane & Walter never married but new eyes may draw different conclusions. But I hadn't thought to look up Walter Todman Jnr(1)'s name in WW1 records.

It's all quite baffling.

Answer 11

Great idea. Generally my most common road blocks are very early Tasmanian profiles, like getting beyond the grandparents of Smith-138047, and finding the parents of Alpin-25.

But I think my more difficult ones, have been the grandparents of https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Russell-3908. I'm pretty sure John William Russell's parents are wrong, and I haven't found any suggestions for where Mary Agnes Murphy came from, and who her parents were.

The other person, I would just love to find death information about, is John Bayles Evans-20205 (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Evans-20205), who had a missing persons report filed against him at one stage, but seems to have completely disappeared. To make things more interesting, in the missing persons report, he seemed to be going by different names in various places, to keep his identity secret.

I started going back through all my tree again, making sure that each profile was a presentable as they can be, with as many sources as possible included. These ones above, I haven't gotten back to yet. I did get a couple of break-throughs, by purchasing certificates selectively, buying ones closest too the missing event. If you haven't found a birth certificate, marriage certificates can be really useful. I'm less inclined to get death certificates, because often the children are giving the details, and didn't know themselves.

But, the greatest tool I have found, which has broken most walls, is Trove. I use it as often as I can for every profile, because it helps to narrow down options when multiple people have the same name, and it can also be great for getting exact dates, when they aren't available in BDM Indexs.

Comments

Hi Ben, Looks like you don't have the marriage certificate for John Wm Russell to Mary Agnes Murphy? This would surely name his parents and county of birth.

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That is probably the best thing I could do at this stage. I'll have to get on to that.

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Well, the wedding certificate arrived in the mail today. And thankfully it is forthcoming. I do try and avoid this expense, but a couple of times, it has been the only way. I need to get the detail in their profiles now, and hopefully, with any luck, maybe someone will already have them entered, and I will have found new cousins.

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Ordering certificates is a slippery slope in genealogy. Once you start it's hard to stop.

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( I think I just worked out this problem, and found a child which I previously rejected. I'll explain at the end. ) I think there is a good possibility, that I just got the wrong marriage certificate. I don't know where the one is that I need.

On the cert. it says that they were living in Balranald. If you look up NSW BDM, a child Catharine Russell is born in Balranald, and then a series of other children, some to John Russell and Mary Jane Murphy.

Now, even though my John William Russell was a school teacher, which agrees with the certificate, she was Mary Agnes Murphy, and they had children during this period, around Victoria.

The Certificate doesn't list Mary's middle name. But, I think now, I need to still find where another John William Russell and Mary Murphy were married.

((( This Catharine Russell must be their child. Firstly the marriage year works out, thankfully. But the other children all born to John and Mary Jane Russell, would indicate that there must be an earlier marriage for this other similar couple. So don't mind that I just caused myself a problem, and then undid it. It was a little bit of confusion. )))

Answer 12

I started putting in a tree for my grandmothers second husband. It is my quickest brick wall. I can't get back 2 generations. I have contacted all the living children, and they have passed on to me certificates, but they can not find there own grandparents either. Total mystery. Have a look for fun, but I don't think anyone will find his parents without a DNA search. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Duggan-1087

Another one I really struggled with, was Edith Linda Greene. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Greene-7209 , looked everywhere. Discovered that there was also a missing persons report filed for her. Turns out she had turned from her family in Sydney apparently, and moved to Melbourne, to be the second wife of my ancestor. In the end, I gave up, and bought her wedding certificate. All three of her certificates, Birth Index, Marriage Index, Death Index, and the full Marriage Certificate too, spelled 'Greene'. Strangely enough, the wedding certificate exposed everything. Her father and family were 'Green'. And what's more, her parents were both already on Wikitree. Go figure.

Comments

At least it's recent enough you can fairly easily use DNA, at least if his surname is his real surname.

I have a similar problem. One of my partners ancestors was Rachel Hughes. Only I don't think she was, I think she fabricated a new identity and a detailed backstory to hide the fact her daughter was born out of wedlock. Her daughter has a unique name and was born to a Jane Smith. Only if she lied about her name later, was this even her real name? She seemed wary of bureacracy, her sons births from her "second" marriage were not registered until they were adults, and she wouldn't get on the electoral roll until long after it became compulsory. This one is in my too hard basket.