Is James Morgan-1173 really John and Sarah’s son?

Question

James Morgan-1173  is listed in the book “Welsh Founders of Pennsylvania” Vol 1 page 133 as John Morgan and Sarah’s son born prior to 1720 and died without children. 

I can not find this book on family search. This is a link to ancestry. 

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/25346/dvm_LocHist010210-00088-1/155?backurl=https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/person/tree/163581962/person/162168813730/facts/citation/622240815034/edit/record#?imageId=dvm_LocHist010210-00089-1

I believe this is also him. marriage to Elizabeth Walker due to the name of the child. Perminter is a family name that has carried its way all the way to my Great Uncle, Piere Mentor Morgan.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3L-Z9RQ-3?mode=g&cc=2385204&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQG6H-M831

Record of birth John Permenta birth son of James Morgan and Elizabeth. The name “Permenta” makes me believe this is my James. 

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS3L-Z95X-B?personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQGHZ-1CT9

I can not find anything on Elizabeth and baby John. They might have passed with no record?

In John’s will he does not mention a son James just the two daughters listed in the book. I can not find the original copy but here is the link to ancestry. https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=try&db=philpa1682&h=83356

Copied from the bottom of the page it says:

John Morgan Junr. Radnor Co. of Chester Pennsylvania. Yeoman. February 21, 1731/2. 3/4/1731. E.181. Wife: Patience. Children: Mary, Hannah. Father: John. Sister: Sarah. Brother: Samuel. Brother-in-Law: Joseph Jones. Nieces: Elizabeth and Sarah Jones. Exec: John Morgan

This record is for James Morgan in the military in 1777 could, of course, be another James but he would have been born approx. 1720

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2DG-SDH9?from=lynx1UIV8&treeref=LRZQ-FPG

Are there any records that show James lived and the book is incorrect? 

Comments

some of your folks here

http://www.familytreedna.com/public/morgan/default.aspx?section=yresults

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4. JOHN Jr b. after 1703 Radnor Twp, Chester, Pa -died 1731. Married Hannah William 1823 at Merion Meeting. He also married Patience (Perminter?). The name Patience is given in his will.

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http://john-morgan-of-radnor.blogspot.com/2007/11/john-morgan-in-radnor-in-early-years.html

has sources like wills and land records

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Patience Morgan

 in the Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania, Will Index, 1682-1819

Name:	Patience Morgan
Role:	Wife
Will Date:	21 Feb 1731
Will Proved Date:	4 Mar 1731
Comments:	John Morgan Junr. Radnor Co. of Chester Pennsylvania. Yeoman. February 21, 1731/2. 3/4/1731. E.181. Wife: Patience. Children: Mary, Hannah. Father: John. Sister: Sarah. Brother: Samuel. Brother-in-Law: Joseph Jones. Nieces: Elizabeth and Sarah Jones. Exec: John Morgan
Page:	E:181
Household Members:	Name Thomas Aspin Catch Evans John Evans Sarah Jones Elizabeth Jones Joseph Jones John Morgan Sarah Morgan Samuel Morgan Patience Morgan Mary Morgan Hannah Morgan John Morgan John Morgan

Source Information

Lineages, Inc., comp. Philadelphia County, Pennsylvania, Will Index, 1682-1819 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2000.

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http://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/100753413

Morgans

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THIS IS FROM A BOOK ON ARCHIVE - explains the Perminter connection

Permenter (this is the correct spelling of his name) was born August 25, 1755 in Harford Co., MD (St. George Parish), the first child of James and Mary Davis Morgan. His father James was the son of John and Sarah Evans Morgan and was born in Harford Co., MD abt 1729. Sarah Evans Morgan died and John Morgan married a second time to Patience Permenter, who raised John and his sister Hannah. Mary Davis was born October 13, 1737 in Harford Co., MD, the daughter of Henry and Sarah Davis.

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it seems from reading through stuff, Patience was a dearly loved step-mother to John and step-grandmother to James, who named his son Permenter in her honor.

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there were Quaker Parmenters in Maryland some families do exist

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signing off LOL

Good luck

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Where in the world did you find this??? This is exactly what I have been looking for for months!

Yes, I think she was if her name is correct she is related to George Parmenter-130 just can't find her actual name or record.  I think this only because they have a child named Thankful and Deliverance. Ya know it kinda fits. lol

Answer 1

At first sight, John and Sarah have 3 bogus kids, all born in different places, all the wrong place.

But we need sources.  Why does it say John married Patience in Massachusetts?  Why does it say James was born in Baltimore?

Why does it say Patience's maiden name was Parminter?

If somebody made that up, the argument is circular.

But Glenn probably said James died sp because he isn't in the will.  He didn't have a death record.

Comments

it looks like he was a circuit preacher

several of his alleged descendants were Baptist ministers, traveling the circuit, sometimes taking churches for short times and that would mean the wife and children settled in for a spell.

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Wake Forest University

http://wakespace.lib.wfu.edu/handle/10339/37737

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Yes, the same questions I have. I have looked and looked for Patience. I have found a family she could very possibly belong to but no record of her found. I don't know what you mean by circular but that story is everywhere, with no records attached. Is it possible that even though it says it died without children in the book and wasn't in the will that he still exists and is their child?

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Sometimes, somebody posts a tree in which John Smith marries Mary _____ and has a son Harrison Smith.  This might be a speculative connection.

Somebody else then decides that Mary must have been a Harrison, to explain the name of the son.  So the wife becomes Mary Harrison.

Then if somebody questions whether Harrison is really John's son, people think it must be right because he had his mother's maiden name.

Or perhaps he was named after a President.