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Grietje (Von Rotmers) Borsboom (abt. 1632 - abt. 1719)

Grietje Borsboom formerly Von Rotmers
Born about [location unknown]
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married 1655 in Schenectady, New Netherlandmap
Descendants descendants
Died about at about age 87 in Schenectady, Schenectady, New Yorkmap
Profile last modified | Created 28 Mar 2011
This page has been accessed 2,738 times.
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Grietje (Von Rotmers) Borsboom was a New Netherland settler.
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Contents

Biography

The first name of the wife of Pieter Borsboom has only been positively identified from a court case that took place on 04 Oct 1681.

"Idem, plaintiff, against Grietie Borsbooms and her son, defendants." [1].

Richard Pretty, the sheriff, complains that Grietje and her son resisted search and committed violence upon him in his lawful duties. The sheriff suspected they were illegally dealing in beaver pelts, which he thought they were hiding on their persons. He accused them of grabbing his throat and collar and yelling obscenities. The court heard from witnesses and agreed to fine Grietje with an admonition against further resistance to lawful commands.

This remains the only known record from Grietje's life. All else is inferred by her roles as wife and mother.

First Origin Speculation

Is is suspected that her patronymic was Barents based on the following entry from the Van Rensselaer Bowier Manuscript:

"Gijsje Berents [Barents], wife of Pieter Jacobsz; is charged with board on den Waterhondt in 1640, and credited with 28 days' work done by her husband on the house of Arent van Curler. It is not unlikely that her husband was the same person as Pieter Jacobsz, constapel of Fort Orange, who on April 15, 1652, by order of Johannes Dyckman tore van Slichtenhorst's proclamation from the house of Gijsbert Cornelisz, the tavern keeper." [2]

There are at least 3 Pieter Jacobsz indexed in Janny Venema's book, Beverwijck. If one assumes that the above entry did describe the wife of Pieter Borsboom, that she was the daughter of "Barent von Rottmers" appears to be based simply on the patronymic.

Looking for actual residents of Ft. Orange who might be the Gijsje and Pieter referenced in 1640, two records were found by an unidentified poster on an Ancestry message board:

  • Geesje Barents died by 1662; Pieter Jacobsen died by 1663:
    • "… Jan Claesssen (Backer) van Osanen (aka Jan Claesz van Oostsanen rec. 1664), husband of Lysbeth Donneur, widow of Pieter Jacobsen van Rinsborgh, accepts the Inheritance of Pieter minus 100 guilders that Pieter furnished to the Company on his sickbed… 23 Nov. 1663.. Administrators are Jan Verbeek and Evert Wendel" [3]
  • In 1642: Pieter Jacobsen of Ft. Orange, born in Rendsburgh, and Gesje Pieters, all to daughter Tunitje Alberts[4].

It is also widely repeated that Pieter Jacobsz Borsboom had come to Fort Orange by 1639, per Pearson[5]. Pearson cites no evidence, but we may assume it is based on the same 1640 record above, again assuming that the Pieter Jacobsz referenced in 1640 is Pieter Jacobsz Borsboom, which he could not have been. The first actual evidence Pearson cites for Pieter Jacobsz Borsboom in Albany is dated 1657.

The entire Van Rotmers speculation seems reducible to confusion caused by twice assuming too much from common patronymics - Grietje Berents and Pieter Jacobsz.

Second Origin Speculation

Their daughter Anna (via her husband Jan Pieterse Mebee) received an extraordinary deed of gift[6] from the Mohawk Indians. The language of the deed is clear; the gift was "in Consideration of ye said Jan Pieters wife (Anna), by reason that she is something Related to ye family of the Christian Castle". This would imply that Grietje was to some degree a Mohawk woman of some means, and that the deed of gift was in accord with the matrilineal rights to certain lands which descended to oldest daughter Anna through her mother's lineage.

There are two possibilities for Mohawk ancestry, that Grietje was full Mohawk, or the descendant of a mixed marriage earlier at Fort Orange. Full Mohawk might be possible because marriages between Dutch men and Indian women were considered reputable and of no disgrace to either party (at least in the society if not in the Church). Then It is possible that Grietje chose or was given her 'Dutch name' to honor Pieter's paternal grandmother.

If Grietje were daughter of a Dutch man and Mohawk woman, perhaps the following speculation would explain it. "Grietje could be daughter of Cornelis Anthonisz van Slyck (1603 to bef. 3 Nov. 1676) and unknown Mohawk woman (NOT Ots-Toch). Grietje would be sister to Jacques Cornelis van Slyck (died Jun. 1690), who also has daughter Grietje. Pieter Jacobse Borsboom's and Grietje’s only son is “Cornelis”."[7]. Pieter Jacobsz and Jacques Cornelis were both among the 15 original patent holders of Schenectady, and likely knew each other well. Note, no daughter Grietje is documented for Cornelis Anthonisz, but the possibility of other children is sometimes implied in references to his recorded children.

A further connection between Grietie Borsboom and the Mohawk might be found in a 1670 land patent to her husband Pieter jacobsz: On the 9th Nov., 1670, Pieter Jacobse Bosboom received a patent " to "confirm to him a small island belonging to him, which hath heretofore been " given to him by the Indians, lying in the river there next to the island of " Sweer Teunise and Akes Cornelise [Van Slyck] containing about six acres or three morgens." The Van Slyck family also claimed Varken Island, a claim confirmed in 1694 by Rode, the Mohawk sachem[8].

When Pieter wrote his will in 1684, he did not mention his wife[9].

Perhaps of note, no well-regarded history of Schenectady assigns Grietje a specific ancestry.

Name

Grietje Barentse /Von Rotmers/[10]
Grietje Barentse VanRotmers
Grietje /Mohawk Clan of the Wolf/ [11]

Birth

ABT 1632 Fort Nassau (Albany), New York[12]
1632 Mohawk Clan of the Wolf, Valley, near Schenectady, New York, US[13]
Born 1637 in Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada

Marriage

Wife of Pieter J. Boorsboom — married about 1655 in Schenectady, Schenectady, New York, USA
1659 Schenectady, New York, United States[14]
Husband: Pieter Jacobse Borsboom
Wife: Grietje Mohawk Clan of the Wolf
  1. Child: Annetje Pieterse Borsboom

Death

1680 Schenectady, Albany, New York, United States[15]
ABT 1719 Schenectady, Schenectady, New York, USA[16]
1719 in Schenectady, Albany, New York, United States

Research Notes

On 10 May 2021, Barry Smith detached the profiles that had been attached Grietje's parents, Barent von Rotmers and Geesje Unknown, per a comment on her profile and a G2G post, having received no objection. See also the case against these parents presented on a freespace page.

Sources

  1. Van Laer, Arnold J. F. van Laer. Minutes of the Court of Albany, Rensselaerswyck and Schenectady, 1668–1685. Vol. III. Albany, New York: University of the State of New York, 1932. p. 169-170.
  2. New York State Library, Kiliaen van Rensselaer, Arnold J. F. Van Laer, Nicolaas de Roever, and Susan de Lancey Van Rensselaer Strong. 1908. Van Rensselaer Bowier manuscripts: being the letters of Kiliaen Van Rensselaer, 1630-1643, and other documents relating to the colony of Rensselaerswyck. Albany, N.Y.: University of the State of New York. page 822
  3. Fort Orange records 1654-1679)
  4. Berthold Fernow, Calendar of Wills; 1896; Google Books; # 956, p. 219;
  5. Pearson; p. 91
  6. From Book 5, page 230, of the Albany County deeds (a photocopy is located in the Mabee Family Papers collection held by the Schenectady Historical Society; a copy of the image has been ordered and will be added to the site).
    Know all men by these Presents that Rode, ye Indian, Called by Christians Dirk, who by and with ye the Consent of the Rest of Christian Indian Castle in ye mohoggs Country doth give & grant unto Jan Pieterse Mebee of Schinnachtady his heirs & assign a Certain peece of grounde scituate lying and being upon Tionnondorogoes Creek on both sides Commonly known by the name of kadarodae, all which land the sade Rode doth Convey with the appurtenances thereunto belonging in Consideration of ye said Jan Pieters wife by reason that she is something Related to ye family of the Christian Castle. In wittnesse whereof we have hereunto set our hands and seals this 17th day of Sept. 1697
    Signed sealed & Delivered by the :
    Rode Indian,
    in the Presence of Christians called Dirk, Dellius Pr. Schuyler
    his marke

    Recorded ye 10th of Sept. 1714 by Philip Livingstone. The "marke" of Rode was a wolf, drawn upside down on the deed.
  7. Unidentified author on an Ancestry message board.
  8. Pearson; p. 79
  9. William S. Pelletreau Abstracts of Wills on File in the Surrogate's Office, City of New York, Unrecorded Wills. New York: [Printed for the Society], 1893. p. 3.
  10. Pearson, Contributions for the Genealogies of the Descendants of the First Settlers of the Patent and City of Schenectady, from 1662 to 1800
  11. GEDCOM file submitted by Robert A Bradshaw
  12. Pearson, Contributions for the Genealogies of the Descendants of the First Settlers of the Patent and City of Schenectady, from 1662 to 1800]]
  13. GEDCOM file submitted by Robert A Bradshaw
  14. GEDCOM file submitted by Robert A Bradshaw
  15. GEDCOM file submitted by Robert A Bradshaw
  16. Pearson, Contributions for the Genealogies of the Descendants of the First Settlers of the Patent and City of Schenectady, from 1662 to 1800
  • GEDCOM file submitted by Robert A Bradshaw, bradshawra at cableone.net. Imported on 30 August 2014.

Acknowledgments

  • This person was created through the import of Austin_Alfred_2011-03-28.ged on 28 March 2011.
  • VanRotmers-3 was created by Sheldon Sickler through the import of Nelson Rodney Sickler.ged on Apr 17, 2014.
  • Mohawk Clan of the Wolf-1 was created by Robert Bradshaw through the import of bradshaw-wiki-9012014.ged on Aug 30, 2014.




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Comments: 14

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Grietje's birth and death details do not appear to be sourced from the listed references. Both can be estimated from other sourced information. Birth before 1640 in Mohawk Castle and death after 1680 in Schenectady would seem justifiable. Also, her displayed other name Von Rotmers is pure fiction and has no place in a PPP. Thanks.
posted by Weldon Smith
LNAB must be UNKNOWN. There is not a shred of valid evidence that she was VON ROTMERS. And the MOHAWK WOLF CLAN attribution is via a GEDCOM, not acceptable as evidence. Thus sources 10 and 11 are fictions. Just because she was fictitiously promoted to be a von Rotmers within the NNS project does not mean she was ever known that way in real life.
posted by Weldon Smith
edited by Weldon Smith
Since there was no opposition to my suggestion to detach Grietje's parents, either on this profile or in the linked G2G post (just some questions on the G2G post but qualified with a statement that it was not an objection), I am detaching the parents.
posted by Barry Smith
Grietje is my (uncertain) 8-great-grandmother. It has been three years since there was discussion about her attached parents. You can find the discussion in the linked questions on G2G. The main argument against removing her parents seems only to have been offered in the first few posts, and that argument was about the then NNS policy that the project did "not disconnect profiles that have an unproven relationship." This policy was removed in January 2018, as it was inconsistent with Wikitree policy. On the other hand, there seemed to be general consensus from many Wikitreers, except those backing this policy, that the parents should be removed.

So I'm raising the issue again. Further details are on a Freespace page my father put together:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Should_Grietje_Borsboom%27s_LNAB_be_changed_to_uinknown#No_Evidence_Supporting_a_von_Rotmer_child_named_Grietje

posted by Barry Smith
edited by Barry Smith
The source for Grietje's marriage is given as a Bradshaw GEDCOM. Project, please bring the relevant source information forward to here. A GEDCOM is not a vaild source, because the underlying tree may not be sourced.

Wikitree prohibits data, even uncertain data, without a source: "Never enter information on WikiTree, even uncertain information, without including your source. Why do you think it might be true?"

Thanks.

posted by Weldon Smith
The source for Grietje's hypothesized origin is given as Pearson's Descendants of First Settlers of Schenectady. Project, please be more specific, since that history begins in 1662 and I can find nothing there to document Grietje Barentse in 1632. I looked in the similar Pearson volume for Descendants of Albany Settlers, and could not find any corroboration there either.

"Wikitree prohibits data, even uncertain data, without a source. Never enter information on WikiTree, even uncertain information, without including your source. Why do you think it might be true?"

Always verify your source specification to ensure it contains the promised information. Thanks.

posted by Weldon Smith
Thank Barbara X for the accurate observations she made in 2014, in a comment on Pieter Jacobsz Borsboom's profile that I second.

Pieter Jacobsz Borsboom has a recorded wife "Grietje" in 1681, with no other identification or record. The only valid hypothesis of Grietje's ancestry is the one that admits there is, as yet, no further origin evidence.

To clarify the status of Grietje's research (as I understand it), I have created a discussion on Freespace for any interested: [[1]]

posted by Weldon Smith
The problem Barent has been merged away.
posted by Carrie Quackenbush
Hi Weldon - the notice you saw refers to profile Barent von Rottmer whose birth year currently is listed as 1568 in the Netherlands. That is too early as his mother is listed as born in 1591... Rottmer-3 needs to be merged or other parents assigned.
posted by Chet Snow
Mohawk Clan of the Wolf-1 and Von Rotmers-5 appear to represent the same person because: This is the oldest maternal ancestor in this chain in need of a merge into the NNS PPP. There is no real support for her identity as a Native rather than just a daughter of this established immigrant. But the alternative bio detail is here if later needed. Thanks!
posted by Steven Mix
Grietje Mohawk Clan of the Wolf appears to be the same person as Von_Rotmers-5. There may be conflicting family traditions over her origin (as a Dutch woman vs. as a Native American woman).
posted by Ellen Smith
Grietje Mohawk Clan of the Wolf appears to be the same person as Von_Rotmers-5. There may be conflicting family traditions over her origin (as a Dutch woman vs. as a Native American woman).
posted by Ellen Smith
VanRotmers-3 and Von Rotmers-5 appear to represent the same person because: This is the oldest maternal ancestor in this chain in need of a merge. No tree conflicts. These matches have been reviewed by the New Netherland Settlers Merge Approval System, and the "Green" destination NNS profile is protected as PPP, and the "Merge Pending" profile is now ready and able to be merged into it. I saved the data to the bios. Thanks!
posted by Steven Mix
It seems to me that this Grietje was imported in error as Daughter of Barent Von Rotmers and Geesje Unknown. They are from the older generation, probably her grandparents instead.

The descendant tree would make much more sense instead if she were the daughter of thier son, Barent Van_Rottmer-2, who was born 1610.

posted by Steven Mix

Featured German connections: Grietje is 20 degrees from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 20 degrees from Dietrich Bonhoeffer, 22 degrees from Lucas Cranach, 20 degrees from Stefanie Graf, 18 degrees from Wilhelm Grimm, 23 degrees from Fanny Hensel, 23 degrees from Theodor Heuss, 14 degrees from Alexander Mack, 31 degrees from Carl Miele, 12 degrees from Nathan Rothschild, 19 degrees from Hermann Friedrich Albert von Ihering and 18 degrees from Ferdinand von Zeppelin on our single family tree. Login to see how you relate to 33 million family members.