Merges to make: Should these kids be Carpenters or Zimmerman for final LNAB?

Question

It would be nice to get this group of Swiss Zimmerman aka Carpenters set straight 

Answer 1

Stimulated by this post I did quite some research in the online copies of the original church records (https://www.be.ch/kirchenbuecher) and I could do quite some cleaning up (including some corrections) and adding of primary sources for Heinrich Zimmerman and his (ancestral) relatives. There was (and still is) some confusion and conflation. A few points to note:

- Zimmerman was spelled with only one 'n' at the time

- Heinrich's mother was named Anna Megert (not Anna Margaretha, no 'o' in her last name), this is still to be corrected.

- I could find and add some siblings for Heinrich Zimmerman, but I am quite sure that the two youngest "siblings" in WIkitree are not really his siblings; the correct parents for his youngest "brother" Hans are shown in his biography, but I cannot change it (project protected). I do not know who the correct parents for his second youngest "brother" Hans (John) are, because there is no christening of a Hans Zimmerman listed in the church records of Wattenwil in December 1702 (or thereabout). 

Comments

Indebted for your help, Samuel, Thanks 

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More FYI - The Germanic Zimmerman surname was occasionally changed to the English Carpenter by descendants in North America.  This change of surnames should not be changed back to Zimmerman for them.

The double n Zimmerman was often used to denote a Jewish connection in some areas of Europe.

You should be aware of Y-DNA testing on some Zimmerman lines. Those from Switzerland include Groups 5, 9 and 11. Each line is a separate group. See the basic lineages of those Y-DNA tested and known ancestry at:  

https://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

On the main Carpenter Cousins web page - on the far left side their are descendant reports for these groups with internal notes. These are THREE different genealogical and genetic lines. See:

https://carpentercousins.com

While Group 5 has the most Heinrich Zimmermans other groups have such names also. Use a Find or search by key word.

Answer 2

Well, the children born in Switzerland would be Zimmermann and the children born in Pennsylvania could be Carpenter.

But the real issue is that two different men seem to be conflated in the profile for the father. We have (1) a man who left Europe for Philadelphia in 1706 and (2) a man who arrived in Philadelphia in 1732 on the pink Plaisance (a Palatine immigrant ship). Some of the children are said to be born in Pennsylvania and are currently named Carpenter; I figure they must be the children of the first man. Other children are currently named Zimmerman and have a birthplace in Switzerland; they must be children of the second man.

A bit of research is needed to disentangle these men and their families.

[Posting from my phone. Please excuse errors I may have made because I couldn't check the profile while typing.]

Comments

You should be aware of Y-DNA testing on some Zimmerman lines. Those from Switzerland include Groups 5, 9 and 11. Each line is a separate group. See the basic lineages of those Y-DNA tested and known ancestry. at:  https://carpentercousins.com/generallineage.htm

On the far left side of the following web page there are Group descendant reports many with extensive notes and an index.  See:

https://carpentercousins.com/

This may be helpful in disentanglement by its use of Y-DNA testing and paper trail genealogy.

Answer 3

Well, LNAB ist exactly this: how their last name was written at their birth, here in their baptism record. Today in Switzerland this would be Zimmermann (with two N), but it's possible that back then it really was written with only one N. Sources will tell.

Wattenwil church books:

Taufrodel [baptism] Nr. 1 (1660-1706), Eherodel [marriages] (1659-1752): https://www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/19/D97265.pdf

Taufrodel [baptism] Nr. 2 (1707-1751), Auswärts getaufte Burgerkinder [Wattenwil children that were baptised in another church] (1682-1728): https://www.query.sta.be.ch/Dateien/19/D97266.pdf

So the church books are available, but I'm not good in reading the old handwriting. Maybe add the tag "Germany", so those who are good in German handwriting and translations can help.

Answer 4

Ellen, Isabelle - thanks for excellent suggestions!