Ralph De Vernon, Baron Vernon of Shipbrook, was born about 1251 in Shipbrook, Northwich, Cheshire, England, or circa 1241-1251 or 1246.
His father was Ralph De Vernon, Rector of Hanwell, and his mother was Cecilia Crew.
He married Mary Dacre.
In 1319, Ralph de Vernoun, knight to Margaret late the wife of Ralph his son, release, for her life, of his right in the manor of Hanwell (Oxfordshire).[1]
His death date has been stated as 9 July 1325, or 24 April 1312, at Bostock, Cheshire, England, after July 1325, or circa 1334.
"COPPY OF AN OLD PEDIGREE REMAINING WITH Sir JOHN SAVAGE, KNIGHT." [Harl. 1424, fo. 125.][2]
Sir Raufe ye Vernon, the old, who lived vij XX zer & 10 zer (vij=7), married Mary the daughter of Lord Dacres. They had four sons and two daughters:
Then Sir Raufe's wife, Mary of Dacres, died. After her death, Sir Raufe, the old, took to wife Paramour, Maud ye Grosvenor. Maud and Sir Raufe had two sons:
Sir Raffe Vernon of Hanwell, Rawlin his son, and Sir Raffe his son, died while Sir Raffe, the old, was still living.
Sir Richard Damory was Justice of Chester, and he agreed with old Sir Raulfe, that the young Sir Rafe (1.1.1.1.) should marry Agnes, Sir Richard's daughter and that Sir Raufe, the old, should give all his Lands &c. to Richard (2), Parson of Stockport, his son with Mary of Dacre, and Richard's heirs and so it was done.
However, Richard, the parson, gave the lands &c. back to old Sir Raufe again for the term of his life and after his decease to the young Sir Rafe (1.1.1.1.) and to Agnes his wife, and to the male heirs of their bodies. If young Rafe and Agnes had no male issue then all the Lands Etc. should go to Richard, the son of old Sir Ralfe ye Vernon of Shipbroke gotten by Maud the Grosvenor and to the male heirs of Richard's body. If Richard, son of Maud also had no male children, then all the Lands &c. should go to the right heirs of the Richard, without end.
Sir Raufe and Agnes didn't have any sons. then entret Sir Rauf the last deghten as son and heire to Richard ye Vernon, the son of old Sir Rafe and Maud. The foresaid Sir Raulfe, Richard's son died without a son of his body and so Sir Richard ye Vernon, brother to the last Sir Raufe entret as male heir and continued all his life and had issue Sir Richard who is now dead without any sons.
As already said, Sir Raufe Vernon had 3 young sons: Hitchcock, John and Thomas the quich (sic).
Drawing of circular seal, inscribed S. RAD'I DE VERNON. Arms: A fesse.
"Note that there were no garbes on the ffesse and yet before before his death he bore the garbes on the ffesse whereby a man may well conjecture that it was after he had matched himself with Maud Grosvenor, widow to Sir John Hatton, who both have garbes in their Armes."
Sir Ralph II de Vernon, 7th Baron of Shipbrook
He lived in the reign of Edward I. He succeeded to the family property through the death without male issure of his uncle, Warin de Vernon. It is said that he survived to an age of one hundred and fifty years and was in consequence called "the old liver."
Ralph de Vernon became the seventh Baron and perhaps the most fantastic of all Vernons. According to all official English records, he lived until 1392, aged 150 years. If this fact bears out, he may well have been the oldest 'liver' in recorded history, until a few years ago when the Russians came up with a man 162 years old. Married twice and outlived most of his many great-grandchildren. He also added the 'maiden proper' on the crest of the coat-of-arms, holding a scythe in her hand and sheaves of wheat in her arm. In 1403 his grandson by his youngest son, Sir Richard the 8th Baron, was beheaded following the Battle of Shrewsbury (he was the Sir Richard Vernon made famous by Shakespeare in one of his plays), the baronage then fell to Sir Ralph 'the Younger' of Hanwell, a great-grandson of 'The Old Liver's oldest son, Sir Ralph. He died without male issue and, in 1404, it went to Sir James of Lostock and Haslington, who became the 10th Baron. [3]
Sir Ralph II de Vernon married (first) Mary, daughter of Ralph, Lord Dacre. He married (second) Maud (or Matilda) Grosvenor-Hatten, daughter of Robert Grosvenor of Budworth and widow of John Hatton.
Beheading of Ralph's grandson, Sir Richard 1403
See also:
This week's featured connections are Baseball Legends: Ralph II is 37 degrees from Willie Mays, 27 degrees from Ernie Banks, 22 degrees from Ty Cobb, 26 degrees from Bob Feller, 26 degrees from Lou Gehrig, 34 degrees from Josh Gibson, 23 degrees from Joe Jackson, 30 degrees from Ferguson Jenkins, 27 degrees from Mamie Livingston, 21 degrees from Mickey Mantle, 21 degrees from Tris Speaker and 26 degrees from Helen St. Aubin on our single family tree. Login to see how you relate to 33 million family members.
I love this guy. What a hoot.
What is the source for his "new and improved" death date? It appears unsourced and the first few lines of the bio are uncertain. So, why are we certain, enough to specify an exact day and location?
There's surely going to be SOME reason he was called The Old-Liver. That's borderline unique. Is it contemporary or a synthetic label by later researchers? Is there a hint he's been conflated with a son or other descendant, and we are now de-conflating them with detective work?
If so, we ought to have ironclad sources and/or more clearly-explained deductive logic before giving the lie to his nickname, and past researchers who didn't disprove it.
There's historical mention of him outliving his own great-grandchildren, is there not? His new, merely 73-year lifespan is not particularly noteworthy, and wouldn't allow him to overlive his own great-grandchildren. So, is his new death date historical fact, or just a new fiction?
Suggestion: Perhaps having NO death date in the structured data would make more sense than an unsourced one? And then we can list all the various alleged deathdates in the bio.
Also, this profile currently has three wives connected. But only two mentioned in the bio, if I'm not mistaken (which I may be, it's dense). So one of his three wive-profiles probably needs to be merged into another... but which?
Our handwritten bio says he was married to Mary Dacre; and after she died, he had natural children by Maud Grosvenor, whom he did not marry. If so, then perhaps we ought to look carefully at the continued existence of the profile for Maud Dacre-19 who currently has most of his children. Alternately we ought to be convinced by sources that Maud is not Mary and they both must continue to exist here.
Is anyone working on this profile?
Should we put him into a project and get some more folks on it?
This discrepancy has been mentioned since Aug. 2015.