Norman Leslie (1380 - 1439)

Born 1380 in Leslie, Fife, Scotland

Ancestors

Descendants

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Biography

Norman Leslie is a member of Clan Leslie.

Sir Norman Leslie of Rothes was born circa 1380. He was the son of Sir George Leslie of Rothes and Elizabeth de la Haye.^[1]

Lands of Rothes

There appears confusion in regards to the lands and titles of Rothes. It seems likely that the confusion lies with an attempt to associate, not unreasonably, the family with the Barony of Rothes in Moray at an early date. This error is compounded on many web pages even to the extent of alleging that the Leslie's held Rothes, Moray, in 1296 when Edward I made his march across Scotland and stayed for a night at the "manor of Rothes". The lands seem to have been held to a family of Pollock. There is no evidence that the Leslies owned it at that point and indeed Edward I is known to have hanged one, William of Rothes, of that family at a trial held at Kildrummie^[2] on 1 Aug 1296. Later Bruce will Charter part of the Barony to Gilbert Wiseman, this fact being noted by the family historian.

An answer may be found in the History of Lindores Abbey and its Burgh of Newbury.^[3] Laing asserts that Rothes was part of the vast Abernethy estates, confiscated by Bruce and given to his son Robert. At some point, likely Robert's death at Duplin Moor, the estates were returned to the heiresses of Abernethy and thus, in part to the Leslie's. Laing attests that "The lands of Pitcairlie reverted to the descendants of Sir Alexander of Abernethy, for the barony of Ballinbriech, of which Pitcairlie forms a part, and that of Cairnie in Perthshire, and of Rothes in the county of Elgin, came into the possession of the family of Leslie".

These lands were however held to the head of the house and it wasn't until 1387 that Sir George Leslie entitled himself as "of Rothes".

It is he that is the first of the name that is known to have possessed Ballenbreich, definitely a holding of the Abernethy family and his grandmother is buried at Lindores Abbey, not 10 kilometres away, in Fife and used a title to Rothes. The family clearly lived at Ballenbreich and not at Rothes in Moray as Sir George is the Sheriff of Fife for a number of years.

Early Years

Norman inherits the estates at his father's death in 1411.^[4] There is nothing known about him in the years until 1423. He is styled as "of Fytherkil", now commonly Leslie or Glenrothes in Fife, in all Charters although the family historian styles him as "of Rothes".

Hostage for James I

David of Lesle, Lord of Lesle, and Norman of Lesle of Fytherkil, (this person, the son of Sir George Leslie of Rothes, now dead), were of the number of Scottish noblemen who were sent into England to attend King James I.. While David was retained as a hostage, Norman returned with James. They had safe passage to Durham for the exchange on 3 Feb 1424.^[5] These would have been the two leading men of the house at the time. The family historian suggests that David remained in England as a hostage till 20th June 1432, when Sir William Baillie of Hoprick was accepted as a substitute for him, but this is incorrect as is noticed below.

As an additional consideration there is a warrant^[6] for safe conduct into England, approved for a year from around the end of 1424, for a party which comprises Sir William Ruthven, Robert of Wedal, James of Dowglas, and John of Lessely, and three servant with "hem" (likely to mean them). Sir William de Ruthven had been one of the commissioners arranging the release of James I and has been stated to have been held as hostage. Clearly this was not the case by the end of 1424. Robert of Wedal is likely the Waddel of Midlothian family and likely a clerk of this group. James of Dowglas would seem likely to be James Douglas, Earl of Douglas, who was known to the King and nobles of England. John of Lessely is a mystery; he could not have been a brother to David as he would have inherited prior to Sir George Leslie and thus must be a relation to Norman Leslie. Balfour Paul^[7] mentions that a natural son John was alive in 1442 and it could not have been him. The date of marriage of Norman is also known and it could not have been a son born to that marriage. It must therefore have been a brother.

On 16 Jul 1425, there is a warrant for safe passage, for the relief of a number of hostages proceeding on leave. A Norman of Lesley is included on the list of Scottish nobles to place themselves into the care of the Chancellor, then at Durham, and to be taken to York.^[8] It is not clear of which family this Norman might be and it seems probable that it was this Norman Leslie of Fytherkill. Balfour Paul confirms this supposition.^[9]

On 14 Feb 1427 Norman of Lesseley is moved from York to Pontefract castle, Yorkshire, nr Wakefield.^[10]

On 8 Mar 1427 there is a notice where David, Lord of Lesselle, is exchanged back into England,^[11] and sent to York castle clearly suggesting that he had been returned to Scotland at some point prior.

On 9 Jul 1427, Norman Lessele, then at Pontefract, is ordered to the Marches (borders) for exchange. He is exchanged, on 9 Nov, by Henry of Douglas, Lord of Loghleven and Logton, illustrating the equivalency requirement. ^[12]

Under the same writ of exchange mentioned for Norman Leslie on 9 Nov 1427, David, Lord of Lesley, is exchanged back into England for Patrick Lyon, again suggesting that he was in Scotland at the time prior.^[13]

Family Lands

Sir David Leslie, 9th Lord of Leslie, died in Mar 1439. At the Inquest, held at Cupar in Fife, it was determined that "the deceased David de Leslie, knight, consanguineus of Norman de Leslie of Rothes and Fythkill, died vest and seized in the barony of Ballinbreich; that the said Norman was nearest lawful heir of entail to the said deceased David; that the barony of Ballinbreich was worth two hundred merks per annum; and that the said barony was in the king's hands, by the death of the said David de Leslie, in default of the true heir not following forth his right by the space of two months. "^[14]

It seems likely that Norman was ill or disabled and thus the reason why he was unable to meet the obligation to submit to the Inquest. His son, George, caused this brief and retour to be copied to the Chancery-House in Edinburgh where it appears on 22 May 1439.

Norman must have died very shortly after this event, in 1439, as his son is served heir to the estates.^[15]

Family and Legacy

He married Christian Seton, daughter of Sir John Seton of Seton and Katherine Sinclair. Papal dispensation was required as they were within prohibited degrees of consanguinity; he being great-grandson of King Robert II. (Stewart), and her father, Sir John Seton, being grandson of Lady Christian Bruce, sister of King Robert I. (Bruce). The dispensation is provided 2 September 1416. ^[16] They are known to have had one child:

George Leslie, who will succeed him in the titles and estates and will be created Earl of Rothes.^[17]

He had also a natural son John, who on 22 July 1442 received from his brother George a grant of the lands of Foulis-Mowat, in the earldom of Mar (Garrioch), as stated in the discussion regarding George Leslie.

This profile is a collaborative work-in-progress. Can you contribute information or sources?

Footnotes

1. ↑ #S-26 Leslie, Charles Joseph; Volume 2, page 13
2. ↑ People of Medieval Scotland; Document 5/3/0 (SHS Misc. xi, 95) online
3. ↑ Lindores Abbey and its burgh of Newburgh : their history and annals; Laing, page 404 online
4. ↑ #S-26 Leslie, Charles Joseph; Volume 2, page 13
5. ↑ 'Calendar of Documents Relating to Scotland Preserved in Her Majesty's Public Record Office, by Joseph Bain, London (H.M. General Register House, Edinburgh, 1881) Bain Volume IV, page 190-191, No. 942
6. ↑ Bain; Volume IV, page 198, No. 970
7. ↑ #S-5 Balfour Paul; Volume 7, page 272
8. ↑ Bain; Volume IV, page 201, No. 983
9. ↑ #S-5 Balfour Paul; Volume 7, page 273
10. ↑ Bain; Volume IV, page 206, No. 1004
11. ↑ Bain; Volume IV, page 206, No. 1005
12. ↑ Bain; Volume IV, page 207, No. 1009 and 1010
13. ↑ Bain; Volume IV, page 207, No. 1010
14. ↑ #S-26 Leslie, Charles Joseph; Volume 2, page 15
15. ↑ #S-26 Leslie, Charles Joseph; Volume 2, page 17
16. ↑ #S-5 Balfour Paul; Volume 7, page 273; noting that Leslie, incorrectly, states 1414.
17. ↑ #S-5 Balfour Paul; Volume 7, page 273

Sources

• Source S-5Sir James Balfour Paul, Editor. The Scots peerage, founded on Wood's edition of Sir Robert Douglas's peerage of Scotland; containing an historical and genealogical account of the nobility of that kingdom. Vol. VII. Edinburgh: D Douglas, 1904. Open Library

• Source Calendar of Documents Relating to Scotland Preserved in Her Majesty's Public Record Office, by Joseph Bain, London (H.M. General Register House, Edinburgh, 1881) Bain Volume IV

• Source S-26 Leslie, Charles Joseph. Historical records of the family of Leslie from 1067 to 1868-69. Collected from public records and authentic private sources. Volume 1 referenced. Edinburgh: Edmonson and Douglas, 1869. archive.org

• Source S-82 Stoddart, Robert Riddle. Scottish arms : being a collection of armorial bearings, A.D. 1370-1678 ........ . Vol. 2. Edinburgh: Paterson, 1881. archive.org

Notes

Acknowledgements