Nicholas
Ide
Born about in Ide, Devon, England
Son of Nicholas Ide
and Elizabeth (Birchard) Ide
[sibling(s) unknown]
Husband of
Martha (Bliss) Ide
— married
16 May 1647 in Springfield, Hampden, Massachusetts
Husband of
Jane (Damon) Kendrick
— married
16 Mar 1680 in Medfield, Suffolk, Massachusetts Bay Colony
Descendants 
Father of
Nathaniel Ide, Mary (Ide) Redway, John Ide, Nicholas Ide, Martha (Ide) Walker, Elizabeth (Ide) Barbour, Timothy Ide, Dorothy Ide, Patience (Ide) Carpenter and Experience Ide
Died
at about age 70
in Rehoboth, Bristol, Massachusetts
Profile last modified
| Created 10 Sep 2010
This page has been accessed 5,083 times.
| Nicholas Ide migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640). Join: Puritan Great Migration Project Discuss: pgm |
Contents |
Biography
Nicholas ide is recorded as arriving in Massachusetts in 1636 with his mother who is referred to as "Widow" Ide.
Various spellings of the surname include Iyde, Eade, Iyd, Ide and Hyde.
On 16 May 1647 he married Martha Bliss in Springfield, Massachusetts as recorded in "U.S., New England Marriages Prior to 1700".
Nicholas Ide was one of the first landowners of Rehoboth and was there as early as April 9, 1645 and is said to have taken an active part in the early settlements and was one of the committee appointed to settle disputes with King Philip, the Indian chief. He is said to be admitted freeman in 1648 and by 1689 he was the owner of considerable land in Rehoboth. It is reported that in 1652 he was fined 25 pounds by the General Court of the colony of New Plymouth for selling a gun to an Indian. He was a surveyor of the "highwaies" of Rehoboth in 1662, 1669 and 1674.
In 1648, Nicholas petitioned the court for a child's share of the estate of his father-in-law Thomas Bliss.
Nicholas was buried 18 Oct 1690. No headstone has been found.
Name
- Name: Nicholas Ide
- The name has many alternative spellings including Ide, Hyde, Hide, Iyde, Eade, Iyd,
Birth
- Born: Say 1620 (1615-1525). Estimate based on his marriages and birth of children. He could have been born a bit before or after this date.
Marriages and Children
- Married: 1st - Martha Bliss on 16 May 1647 in Springfield, Hampden, Massachusetts (date and place need confirmation). She was the daughter of Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth (but see Research Notes below). Martha died on 3 November 1676.
- Married: 2nd - Jane Damon as her second husband on 16 March 1679/80 at Medfield, Norfolk, Massachusetts. She was the widow of John Plimpton. They had no children. Following the death of Nicholas Ide, she would marry for a third time to George Kendrick.
- "Jane and Nicolas Hide, Mar. 16, 1679." [1]
- Children of Nicholas Ide and Martha Bliss:[2]
- Nathaniel Ide. 1647–1648
- Mary Ide. 1649–1718
- John Ide. 1649–1676
- Martha Ide. 1654–1700
- Nicholas Ide. 1654–1723
- Timothy Ide. 1660–1735
- Dorothy Ide. 1662–
- Patience Ide. 1664–1732
- Experience Ide. 1666-1732
- Also sometimes given, but these names do not occur in the vital records of Rehoboth or anywhere else:
- Margaret Ide (1668-)
- Samuel Ide. 1670–
Death
- Burial: 18 October 1690 at Rehoboth, Bristol, Massachusetts. [3]
Research Notes
- Notes on first wife Martha: Martha has been identified as Martha Bliss, daughter of Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth. However, this has been challenged. This section is to gather the evidence and arguments for and against the identification.
Will of Thomas Bliss
- Thomas Bliss made his Will on the 7th days, eighth month, 1647.[4] In it, he mentions:
- "fouer children"
- son Jonathan
- son-in-law Thomas Willmore
- eldest daughter and her husband Thomas Willmore
- daughter Mary and her husband Nathaneell Harmon
- Nathaniel, son of son-in-law Nicholas Ide
- Nicholas Ide
- Overseers Richard Wright and Stephen Payne
- The Widow Ide: The first suggestion that Thomas Bliss had married the "widow Ide" was made in The Boston Evening Transcript in 1915 in its genealogy Queries and Answers section.[5][6][7] This was purely speculation with no new evidence provided. Furthermore, the Answer contains errors so it was not authoritative or trustworthy.
Needs
While this profile is still-in-need-of GEDCOM clean up, please see the helpful comment by Gene Zubrinsky FASG as regards the need to update relationship links and details.
Sources
- Footnotes and citations:
- ↑ Medfield. Vital Records of Medfield, Massachusetts to the year 1850. (Boston: NEHGS, 1903):165. Internet Archive link
- ↑ Arnold, James N. Vital record of Rehoboth, 1642-1896 : marriages, intentions, births, deaths. (Providence, R.I., 1897): page 648. Internet Archive link
- ↑ Arnold, James N. Vital Record of Rehoboth, 1642-1896: Marriages, intentions, births, deaths. (Providence, R.I., 1897): page 840. Internet Archive link
- ↑ The Mayflower Descendant volume 8, number 2. (Boston, April 1906): pages 85-87. "Plymouth Colony Wills,"
- ↑ Boston Evening Transcript: Genealogy Pages, 1911-1940. (AmericanAncestors.org online database). Monday, July 26, 1915. Column 4.
- ↑ Was this really the earliest reference? Need to research.
- ↑ May, George Steven. Clarence James Robertson, 1887-1945: Some Ancestors. (1987): page 127.
- Primary sources:
- Massachusetts, Town and Vital Records, 1620-1988
- U.S. and Canada, Passenger and Immigration Lists Index, 1500s-1900s
- U.S., New England Marriages Prior to 1700
- The Pioneers of Massachusetts, 1620-1650
- Secondary sources:
- Louis W Flanders,M.D, "Simeon Ide Yeoman, Freeman, Pioneer Printer"
- "Genealogy of the Ide Family" complied by Edith Flanders Dunbar published by the Tuttle Company of Vermont in 1931
- Silas Callender Ide. A history of the Ide family in the United States. Sweet Valley, Pa: S.C. Ide, 1916.Open Library
- "Carroll~Rogers~Cushing~Stiles~Traudt Families" Personal family tree. archived site, 2 June 2016
- Bliss, Aaron Tyler. Genealogy of the Bliss family in America. (1982). Available at Open Library.
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It is not certain, moreover, that Nicholas Ide's wife Martha (bur. Rehoboth 3 Nov. 1676) was a Bliss by birth. The repeated assertions that she was the daughter of Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth is based on a passage in Bliss’s will, in which he refers to Nicholas Ide as “my sonninlaw.” With his first wife, Bliss had seven known children, baptized between 1615 and 1626 (Daventry, Northamptonshire, parish register, 1560–1630, baptisms, 34, 36, 39, 44, 47, 50, 52; the baptismal record of a long-supposed son Nathaniel is actually that of a daughter “Marthah” [ibid., 47]). Bliss’s will names only a son and two daughters but nevertheless refers to “my fouer Children”; daughter Martha is not mentioned (Plymouth Colony Wills, 1:67–68, will dated “the seventh day of the eighth month [Oct.] 1647”; estate inventory dated “the 21 of the eighth month [Oct.] 1647”). The will mentions Bliss’s daughters’ husbands in relation to their respective wives: “my eldest Daughter [Elizabeth] and her husband Thomas Willmore [i.e., Wilmarth]” and “my Daughter Mary and her husband Nathaneell harmon.” By contrast, so-called son-in-law Nicholas Ide—whose wife, Martha, was then living—is mentioned only in relation to Ide’s son “Nathaneell,” whose relationship to the testator is not stated.
While these facts are significant in their own right, they become all the more so when it is understood that the term _son-in-law_ was often used at this time to mean _stepson_. It is therefore possible that, of Thomas Bliss’s “fouer Children,” Nicholas Ide was the fourth —a stepson, by way of Bliss’s marriage to Ide’s widowed mother—and not the husband of Bliss’s daughter Martha. This interpretation is consistent with the petition of “Nicolas Hyde” to the Plymouth Colony General Court on 7 June 1648 “for a childs portion of the estat[e] of Thomas Blisse, desseased” (_Records of the Colony of New Plymouth in New England_, ed. Nathaniel B. Shurtleff and David Pulsifer, 12 vols. in 10 [Boston, 1855–1861], 2:126). For further discussion of this unresolved issue, see GenForum’s Ide Family Genealogy Forum beginning with this writer’s posting “Martha (-----) Ide WAS NOT Thomas Bliss’s Daughter,” dated 7 Feb. 2002 (https://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/ide/275/), and ending with the eighth follow-up message, dated 13 Aug. 2007. (The thread continues, but it is unnecessary to follow it further.)
And as for Nicholas1's origin (baptismal date/place, parents), the various Ide genealogical materials furnish no evidence for asserting (when they do) that the immigrant Ide's father was Nicholas Ide of the Devonshire parish of the same name. Simple pronouncements are no substitute for genealogical proof. So far as I am aware, Nicholas1 Ide's origin remains unknown. In light of the rarity of the Ide surname in sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Devonshire and its far more common appearance in Sussex, the latter area is probably a richer focus of research. (A Nicholas Ide was baptized in Woolavington, Sussex, 31 October 1616, son of John Ide. I'm just sayin' . . .)
I have added a maintenance category, "needs relationship check," supported by a temporary needs section.
- Is the marriage date and place of Nicholas Ide and Martha correct? (probably not)
- Is Martha the daughter of Thomas Bliss of Rehoboth? (disputed)
- Are the origins of Nicholas Ide correct? (unproven)
The second one is the most interesting to me, and I hesitate questioning your conclusions on a problem you have worked on for 2 decades and which I have spent 15 minutes reading about. However, I do not see that the GenForum thread reaches the conclusion that Nicholas Ide was a stepson of Thomas Bliss rather his son-in-law as directly stated by Thomas Bliss' will.
- Thomas Bliss was recently proven to have a daughter Martha
- Nicholas Ide's wife was named Martha
- Thomas Bliss' will gives the name of 3 of 4 children, with the fourth being represented by Nathaniel, son of son-in-law Nicholas Ide
- Thomas Bliss names Nicholas Ide as his son-in-law
The natural conclusion is that Martha Bliss married Nicholas Ide. Yes, the term "son-in-law" could mean "stepson" in this time period, but is there any actual reason to suppose this in this case? The will uses the term son-in-law for the husband's of his other daughters, making it even more likely that Nicholas was in fact another son-in-law. Nicholas was claiming a child's portion of Thomas Bliss' estate which he would have no legal claim to as a stepson, but which he could claim on behalf of his wife Martha. If Thomas Bliss married 2nd Abigail Southam in February 1633, where does the name Ide even come from - she would have been Abigail Ide if she was a widow.
edited by Joe Cochoit
Thanks for making explicit your doubts, so that I may respond to them with specificity.
While it's indisputable that Thomas Bliss had a daughter Martha, and that Nicholas Ide's first wife bore the same forename, it's far too common a name to be given much importance in attempting to resolve the issue of whether or not the two Marthas were the same person.
To say that Thomas Bliss's fourth child is "represented by Nathaniel, son of son-in-law Nicholas Ide" would seem to require that you had already made up your mind as to the meaning of _son-in-law_ as used in relation to Nicholas Ide. That assumes the answer to the very issue that remains unresolved.
That Martha Bliss married Nicholas Ide is a "natural" conclusion only if one insists on a modern connotation to the term _son-in-law_.
That the will refers to Thomas "Willmore" as Bliss's son-in-law is no reason to assume that when used in relation to Nicholas Ide that it means the same thing. I am (as you may also be) familiar with terms such as _cousin_ or _brother_ having different meanings in the same document: brother, meaning full sibling in one place, half-sibling, brother-in-law, or church brother in another; cousin, meaning nephew/niece in one place, uncle/aunt or cousin (as we use it today) in another.
If Nicholas Ide were petitioning for a child's portion of Thomas Bliss's estate on behalf of his wife, one would expect the record to say so; it does not. That Ide had "no legal claim" to a child's share is of course true: the will supersedes common law, which in a case of intestacy would also exclude him. But there was certainly nothing to prevent Ide from petitioning for it. The outcome is unknown.
That the name Martha fails to appear in Thomas Bliss's will strikes me as significant. Nicholas Ide's wife Martha lived another twenty-nine years; if Nathaniel Ide were the son of Bliss's daughter, wouldn't the will have mentioned her? Why would it mention two daughters and identify their husbands as such but not do the same for a third?
I don't assume that Abigail Southam was Nicholas Ide's mother. I assume that, if Thomas Bliss married Nicholas Ide's mother ("the widow Ide," as secondary sources often call her), it was his third marriage. But for argument's sake, even if Abigail were Nicholas's mother, the surname under which she married Thomas Bliss need not have been Ide if she had been married twice before.
Presumably you noticed that, while the GenForum thread begins with my stating unequivocally that Martha Ide "WAS NOT" Thomas Bliss's daughter, by the end of the relevant portion, I had softened my position to one of uncertainty. That is where I remain today—as my initial WikiTree comment (paragraph two, first sentence, above) indicates. I don't believe the evidence as to the identity of Martha (Mrs. Nicholas) Ide is strong enough in either direction to be considered definitive.
edited by Gene Zubrinsky FASG
edited by Joe Cochoit