Ralph (Camoys) de Camoys (abt. 1283 - 1336)

Born about 1283 in England

Ancestors

Husband of Elizabeth (Despenser) de Camoys — married before 20 May 1316 in England

Descendants

Died 1336 at about age 53 in England

Biography

Sir Ralph III Camoys was a member of the aristocracy in British Isles.

First parliamentary "Lord Camoys". See Complete Peerage.

Wife (modern discovery)

The following is a post by Douglas Richardson on soc.genealogy.medieval with regard to the second wife of Ralph de Camoys.

"Sir Ralph de Camoys is known to have married twice. He married (1st) in 1303 to Margaret de Brewes, daughter of William de Brewes, Knt., of Bramber, Sussex, by his 3rd wife, Mary, daughter of Robert de Roos, Knt. He had one son, Thomas, Knt., by this marriage. Margaret was living in 1304-1305, when she and Roger conveyed the manor of Little Bookham, Surrey to her mother, Mary de Brewes [Reference: List of Inquisitions ad Quod Damnum, Part I (Lists and Indexes, No. XVII): 83]. She was likely still living in 1307, when Ralph was summoned "with his consort" to attend the Coronation of King Edward II. Following Margaret's death, Sir Ralph de Camoys married (2nd) sometime before 1319 a certain Elizabeth, by whom he had three sons, Hugh, Knt., John, Knt., and Ralph, and two daughters, Margaret and Isabel. Complete Peerage states that Sir Ralph de Camoys' second wife, Elizabeth, was "probably a daughter or sister of William de Rogate." Yet, the three sources cited as evidence of Elizabeth's parentage do not bear this out. In fact, there is nothing in these sources which would suggest that Elizabeth was a Rogate at all.

"The question then is: Who is Elizabeth, the second wife of Sir Ralph de Camoys? Actually the answer to her identity has been available in print since at least 1905. An early visitation of Sussex gives a somewhat garbled account of the baronial Camoys family. This account was submitted by the Lewknor family who were the lineal heirs of the Camoys family. According to this visitation, Sir Ralph de Camoys married "..... d. of Hugh le Spencer Erle of Winchester." [Reference: Benolte et al., Vis. of Sussex 1530 & 1633-4 (H.S.P. 53) (1905): 29-30 (Camoys pedigree)]. As far as I can tell, this visitation record was either overlooked or completely ignored by Complete Peerage.

"As for Sir Ralph de Camoys and his wife, Elizabeth, they occur together in many records, often with the Despenser family. In 1305 and again in 1313, Ralph received letters of protection while going beyond the seas on the King's affairs with Hugh le Despenser the elder. Ralph was summoned to Parliament from 26 Nov. 1313 to 1 April 1335, by writs directed Radulpho de Camoys, whereby he is held to have become Lord Camoys. In 1319 Sir Ralph and his wife, Elizabeth, and Hugh le Despenser were pardoned for acquiring to them and the heirs of Ralph the bailiwick of the forestship of Aisholt [Hampshire] and Wolmer [Sussex] from Richard de Venuz without license. In 1320 Ralph served as one of Hugh le Despenser's attorneys. In 1321 he and his wife, Elizabeth, granted land in Trotton, Sussex and elsewhere to William de Rogate for life. In 1323-1324 he and his wife, Elizabeth, settled the manor of Cokeham (in Sumpting), Sussex on themselves for life, with reversion to their son, Ralph. In 1324 the king granted the manor of Westbury, Hampshire to Ralph, his wife, Elizabeth, and their son, Hugh. In 1325-1326 Ralph and his wife, Elizabeth, settled a messuage and lands in Woolavington, Sussex on themselves for life, with reversion to their son, John. In 1326 he and his wife, Elizabeth, and their son, John, were allowed the yearly fair at Rogate, Sussex. Ralph was pardoned in Feb. 1326/7 for his adherence to the Despensers in their rebellion against King Edward II.

"As shown above, Elizabeth, wife of Sir Ralph de Camoys, appears in many records. She and her husband made careful provision for their three sons, Hugh, John, and Ralph. These are all good indications that Elizabeth herself was of high rank. Moreover, the names of Elizabeth's children, Hugh, Margaret, and Isabel are all well known Despenser family names.

"Besides the links to the Despenser family cited above, I also find that Sir Ralph de Camoys had two other important ties to the Despensers. First, Margaret de Goushill, daughter of Sir Ralph de Camoys' first cousin, Sir Ralph de Goushill, was married before 1313 to Sir Philip de Despenser, younger son of Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester. Second, in 1326 that Sir Ralph de Camoys and Isabel de Hastings (another daughter of Earl Hugh le Despenser), purchased the marriages of the two Foliot co-heiresses, Margery and Margaret, and married them to their respective sons.

"Reviewing the above information, I find that Sir Ralph de Camoys' wife, Elizabeth, was of sufficient rank to be the daughter of Earl Hugh le Despenser. Sir Ralph de Camoys' close association to the Despenser family is more than evident. Sir Ralph de Camoys' own rank as baron was sufficient for him to have married an Earl's daughter. Lastly, Ralph and Elizabeth's children bear witness of Elizabeth's Despenser parentage.

"As a final piece of evidence, I find that William Hastings and his brother, Richard Hastings, would be kin to King Edward IV of England once in the 5th and 7th degrees of kindred (or, if you prefer, 4th cousins twice removed), and once in the 5th degree and 8th degrees of kindred (or, if you prefer, 4th cousins thrice removed), by virtue of their common descent from Isabel de Beauchamp (died 1306), wife of Sir Patrick de Chaworth and Hugh le Despenser, Earl of Winchester, as shown below:

1. Isabel de Beauchamp, married (2nd) Hugh le Despenser, Knt., Earl of Winchester.

2. Elizabeth le Despenser, living 1370, married before 1319 Ralph de Camoys, Knt., Lord Camoys.

3. John de Camoys, Knt., of Norfolk, born c. 1320, living 1362, married (2nd) ?Elizabeth ____ (doubtless a near kinswoman of William le Latimer, K.G., 4th Lord Latimer)."

Sources

• Wikipedia contributors, "Baron Camoys," Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baron_Camoys&oldid=1174055026 (accessed May 6, 2024)
• Sanders, English Baronies, pp.19-20 and 44-45
• 'Parishes: Pilton', in A History of the County of Northampton: Volume 3, ed. William Page (London, 1930), pp. 129-131. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/northants/vol3/pp129-131 [accessed 12 October 2019].

See also:

• 29 Dec 2006 posting of Douglas Richardson on soc.genealogy.medieval re: C.P. Correction: Elizabeth le Despenser, wife of Sir Ralph de Camoys,Lord Camoys

Acknowledgements

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