William (Say) de Say (bef. 1209 - bef. 1272)

Born before 1209 in England [uncertain]

Ancestors

Husband of Sibyl (Marshal) de Say — married after 1230 in England

Husband of Mary (Unknown) Ufford — married after 1254 in England [uncertain]

Descendants

Died before 12 Feb 1272 at about age 63 in England [uncertain]

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Magna Carta Surety Baron Descendant (see text). Join: Magna Carta Project Discuss: magna_carta

Biography

William de Say, Knt., Constable of Rochester Castle, was the son and heir of Magna Carta surety baron Geoffrey de Say, Knt., and Hawise de Clare, daughter of Magna Carta surety Richard de Clare, Knt., Earl of Clare.^[1][2][3] William was born before 1209 (of age in 1230).^[1]

William married first to Sybil _____,^[3] who is said to be the daughter of John Marshal.^[1] The date and place of their marriage are unknown. They had two sons and 4 daughters:

• William, Knt., born 20 November 1253,^[3] died before 16 September 1295, married Elizabeth ____ and had issue^[1]
• John, younger son, married Mary _____, and had a child^[1]
• Alice, married William de la Forde and had a child^[1]
• Hawise, married Sir John le Marshal and had children^[1]
• Agnes, married Sir Alexander de Cheyne^[1]
• (unknown), married Sir John de Sudeley, 1st Lord Sudeley^[1]

William's first wife was living on 14 Aug 1244 when she received a gift of deer from the king.^[1] William married second to Mary ________,^[1][3] date and place unknown.

William died before 12 February 1271/2^[1][3] (date of IPM). His widow, Mary, remarried before 12 May 1273 to Sir Robert de Ufford and they had a son. Mary died by 1285, when her step-son was granted lands.^[1]

William's Inquisition Post Mortem by writ dated 12 February 1272 named his son, William, as his heir.^[4]

Research Notes

Manor of Saye's Court

"William his son succeeded him, and died anno 56 Henry III. holding this manor in capite by barony, and the repair of a house in Dover-castle, called, from its possessors, Saye's-tower. (fn. 10) His son of the same name, accounted at the Exchequer for twenty-seven fees of the honour of Magminot; that is, twenty-six of the old feoffment and one of the new, which shews the large extent of his possessions. He died anno 23 king Edward I. possessed of this manor, leaving Geoffrey his son and heir, (fn. 11) who married Idonea, daughter of William de Leyborne (who survived him) and died possessed of it, in the 15th of king Edward II. leaving Geoffrey de Saye, his son, who, in the 8th of king Edward III. obtained the king's charter for free warren for all his demean lands in his lordships of Greenwich, Deptford, &c. with the view of frankpledge and other privileges, and died in the 33d year of it, leaving William his son and heir, and Maud his wife, surviving, (daughter of Guy de Beauchamp, earl of Warwick) and three daughters, who afterwards became their brother's heirs, as will be further mentioned."^[5]

Sawbridgeworth Manor

"In 1222 Geoffrey de Say, son of the last-mentioned Geoffrey, received the grant of a market to be held at Sawbridgeworth on Saturday. (fn. 18) By another grant the following year the day was changed to Friday. (fn. 19) William de Say, son and successor of Geoffrey, probably inclosed the park, for in 1237 he was allowed ten bucks from the king's forest of Essex to place in his park of Sawbridgeworth. (fn. 20) In 1245 he obtained a licence for free warren in his manor. (fn. 21) The extent taken at his death in 1272 mentions the park and warren. (fn. 22) William de Say, his son and successor, was presented before the commissioners of Edward I for having appropriated free warren on alien fees and on the lands of his tenants. (fn. 23) He claimed the liberties of gallows, view of frankpledge, assize of bread and ale, pillory, tumbrel and prison at Sawbridgeworth as belonging to the honour of Mandeville and exercised by his ancestors. These were allowed him. (fn. 24) William de Say died in 1295. (fn. 25)"^[6]

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.00 1.01 1.02 1.03 1.04 1.05 1.06 1.07 1.08 1.09 1.10 1.11 1.12} Douglas Richardson. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011, vol. III, pages 497-500, SAY 2.
2. ↑ Douglas Richardson. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013, vol. IV, pages 564-566, SAY 7.
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1 3.2 3.3 3.4} Cokayne, George Edward and Geoffrey White ed. Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, Vol. XI: Rickerton to Sisonby, 2nd ed. (London, 1949). Online at FamilySearch.org, pages 470-473: SAY.
4. ↑ Calendar of Inquisitions Post Mortem and Other Analogous Documents preserved in the Public Record Office (H.M. Stationery Office, London, 1904) Vol. 1: Henry III. Page 281: #813. William de Sey. Writ, 12 Feb. 56 Hen. III. "William de Say, his son, age variously stated as 18 on the feast of St. Edmund the King last, and 19 on the same feast, is his heir."
5. ↑ Edward Hasted, "Parishes: Deptford," in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent, Volume 1 (Canterbury: W Bristow, 1797), British History Online, pages 340-371.
6. ↑ William Page, ed. "Parishes: Sawbridgeworth", in A History of the County of Hertford, Volume 3, (London, 1912), British History Online, pages 332-347.

• Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2011). See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
• Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham. (Salt Lake City, UT: the author, 2013). See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.

See also:

• Richardson, Royal Ancestry, (2013), vol. III, page 287; vol. IV, pages 456, 559-563; vol. V, pages 84-85, 255.
• Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry, (2011), vol. III, pages 422, 495-496; vol. IV, page 135.

Acknowledgments

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Magna Carta Project

This profile was reviewed/approved for the Magna Carta Project by Thiessen-117 17:54, 8 March 2020 (UTC).

William de Say is a descendant of Magna Carta Surety Barons Geoffrey de Say and Richard de Clare in badged trails to the following Gateway Ancestors:

• Anne Baynton (MCA II:78-83 DIGGES): trail to Say badged 16 July 2021. See the trail HERE.
• Dorothy Beresford: the trail to Say was badged 7 Mar 2020 and the trail to de Clare was badged in 2015 and re-reviewed/approved 7 Mar 2020. See the trails HERE.
• Essex Beville (MCA I:192-196 BEVILLE): both trails were badged in November 2015 and can be viewed HERE.
• Edward Digges (MCA II:78-83 DIGGES): the trail to Say was badged in March 2023 and set out HERE.
• Gerard Fowke (MCA II:226-227 FOWKE): the trail to Say was badged 15 November 2021. See the trail HERE.
• Thomas Lunsford (MCA III:84-85 LUNSFORD): badged in Feb 2015. See the trail HERE.
• Edward Raynsford (MCA III:422-427 RAYNSFORD): badged in August 2023. See the trail HERE.

William also appears in unbadged trails (needing work) to the following Gateways:

• Kempe Gateways (Richard, Edward, Edmund and Matthew): trail not yet developed and can be viewed HERE.

See Base Camp for more information about Magna Carta trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".