Error - Child is older than mother [closed]

Question

On 17 Aug 2017 Loretta (Leger) Corbin wrote on Ryckman-62:

A child's birth date should not be before a parent is six years old.

Comments

There is also the fact that Trijntje and Janse werent married until 1643(ish) more like 1642 if that is the correct birth year for Albert Janse Ryckman as the couple would have been recently married. Harmans dob is entered in WikiTree as 1618 so someone needs to source their managed profiles a little better and stop getting bent out of shape when someone offers reasonable sources and explanations on why. Clearly we cant say that we all comply with pre-1700 requirements and having to be the primary source before wikitree will "allow" the.creation. if thats the case there are a lot of profiles that need to be sourced or deleted if thats the "bottomline" of the policies in place surrounding profile creation.

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The only sourced information I've seen about Harmen is that someone of that name witnessed the joint will of Trijntje and her second husband. That's hardly a basis for extensive discussion.

Answer 1

That is a Suggestion probably on that profile which was created initially by a Gedcom.  Either the birth date of the child, Harman, is incorrect, or he has been connected to the wrong parents since the 'sibling' was born 24 years later.

Sources are needed to determine what is accurate.

Comments

So are we satisfied that Harmen is not a child of Trijntje and Jan ?.... if not let me know, as there is more evidence to support that he is not a child of Jan  and Trijntje but rather a brother of Jan. If this isnt fixed Im going to move up the ladder and have the change made.

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When WikiTree first started, people were able to upload large gedcom files containing profiles that were not well sourced. didn't have sources or were copied from public family trees. Not long after, it was realized this was a problem, and to this day, WikiTreers continue to improve unsourced profiles, writing complete biographies and provide source citations. Over the years, changes have taken place to ensure that certain ancestors/profiles are protected due to their status, their ethnicity and/or their place in history. Such is the case with Jans Janse and Trintje Jans. Ellen and others have spent considerable time working on the profiles for the New Netherland Project including the Ryckman lineage. 

A good genealogist understands what are original and derivative sources containing primary, secondary or undetermined information. The book and website you've referenced by Lorraine McGinnis Schulze is derivative evidence. Much of the information is outdated because Lorraine didn't keep up with maintaining and updating The Olive Tree website. BTW, I knew Lorraine for many years. She passed away last year. 
Many discussions have taken place about the information in the books written by Lorraine. More research needs to be done with original sources and primary information. To date, no one else has done the research in Albany, NY. 

As for me "completely silent" ... Well, I'm not at your beck and call. Sometimes we have other things to do. You need to be patient. I don't appreciate you threatening or bullying us with statements such as "If this isnt fixed Im going to move up the ladder and have the change made."

You don't need to be added to the Trusted List to make changes in the biography. If you think your information is valid, then add a Research Notes section to the profiles.

The researchers on the New Netherlands Project are experienced genealogists / family historians and have been researching the Ryckman family for over 25 years, including me.

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Nice to see you, Kathryn. Thanks for posting.

I'd like to suggest, however, that you didn't go far enough in your statement "You don't need to be added to the Trusted List to make changes in the biography. If you think your information is valid, then add a Research Notes section to the profiles."

It is not necessary for folks to restrict themselves to "Research Notes" when they have valid information to add to an Open profile that has the New Netherland project as a manager, with or without PPP. There is no truth to the notion that only a privileged few are entitled to touch project-managed profiles. Many profiles in the project are in desperate need of attention from interested members. Note that there are 27 subcategories in Category:New Netherland Settlers Project Maintenance Categories. Those maintenance categories are there to encourage members to help address problems that another member pointed out. (They are absolutely not some sort of a personal to-do list for project leadership!) It makes me want to scream sometimes when a member politely and apologetically asks me if it would be OK for them to remove gedcom clutter and add good sources to a particular profile. I am not upset at the member who asks, but I am upset about the misconceptions that have been circulated regarding projects. Maybe some other projects want monopoly control over your ancestors (I hope not...), but that's the case with New Netherland.

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Kathryn,

First let me say I appreciate the reply. I am thankful of all the work put in by yourself and others in researching OUR families genealogy, same goes for Ellen and the late LORINE. LORINE did a lot of good work and thats all Im going to say about that. I see you were really close.

Im going to try and keep this simple and direct.

I was not threatning or bullying anyone. I see an OBVIOUS error and it appears that no one seems very eager to fix the error. In the profile of Harmen Janse Ryckman, the first thing sticking out like a sore thumb (to me). Is the following, I copy and pasted for ease of reference.

Note: Harmen Jansz Ryckman was not a son of Trijntje Jans and her first husband Jan Jansz Ryckman, according the joint will from 3 July 1663 he was a good friend........

So, can someone tell me what it is that Im missing here ?.

I'll respect your point about Lorines information being outdated on Harmen Janse Ryckman, if you can support your argument by showing me ANYTHING that discredits the documented fact that Harmen Janse Ryckman is not the child of Jan Janse Ryckman.

Im extremely annoyed about this. Thats where my frustration is housed. Im younger than you, but im not stupid. The facts to support my argument are numerous, what do you have to the contrary?.

Matt

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Thanks for the reply Ellen.

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Ellen, I'm not holding monopoly control over my ancestors, and I don't care for the insinuation. By the time I went to add Matt to the Trusted List he was already on there.  My point is that you don't have to be on a profile trusted list if the profile is open in order to make changes to the biography and/or add research notes.

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Matt, to answer your question "So, what am I missing?"

Reviewing the changes made to Trijntje's profile answers your question. Trijntje's profile was created in 2016. It may have been through merges or an incorrect assumption that linked her as the mother of Harman.
Reviewing my personal research of the Ryckman family in my family history software program shows Trijntje as the wife of Jans, and the mother of Albert Jansz Ryckman. Harman is the brother of Jans. I'm descended from both Jans and Harman - I'm a double Ryckman. And, so are you.

Harman has been removed as a child of Jans and Trijntje. I've added a profile for the father of Jan and Harman based on a public family tree on Ancestry. It's really just a place holder so that I could add Harman as the brother of Jans. Obviously, more research is needed for their father.

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Kathryn, my comment was about people who have the misconception that the Project (not individual members like you) has asserted monopoly control over the profiles where it is a profile manager.

Thank you for re-engaing with Harman's profile.

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Thanks Kathryn, I appreciate the time you took to address this issue. 

Im not sure what you mean by a "Double" Ryckman. My ( your) direct ancestral descendant is Jan Janse (10th GG) following my ancestral line of descent we move on to  to Albert Janse (9) to Johannes Albertse (8) to Tobias ( 1711 -1784 ) (7) to Johannes ( 1738-1784) (6) to Edward Ryckman (1767-1846)(5), to John Warren Ryckman (4) to Edward Archilus Ryckman (3) to Elvin Roy Ryckman (2) to Willard Russell Ryckman (1st Great Grandfather ) To Elvin Russell Ryckman (Grandfather). 

I know that we have 2 ancestors that brought the Kip and Ryckman families together . One being Catharine Kip who married Johannes Ryckman, and Samuel Kip who married Margarita Ryckman (daughter of Albert Janse).

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Matt, I made an error - as you no doubt have already figured out there too many men in the Ryckman family with the same name. I had you descended from the wrong man named Johannes Ryckman. Now that this is sorted, you are not a "double Ryckman" after all.

I'm descended from both Jans Janse and Harmen Janse Ryckman as follows:

Jans Janse > Albert Janse > Johannes Albertse (brother of your ancestor, Tobias) > Johannes > Johannes (John Ryckman of Barton Twp., UEL) > Albert > Wiliam > Harman > William Eugene > Harman Eugene > Lenore (my grandmother)
 

Harmen Janse > Margarita > Jacques Cornelis Van Slyke III > Maria > Johannes (John Ryckman of Barton Twp., UEL).

The lineage of both parents of John Ryckman, UEL makes me a "double Ryckman."